By continuing you agree to eChinacities's Privacy Policy .
Sign up with Google
Sign up with Facebook
Q: Asylum... why cant people see the simple solution?
The caravan is on its way, long way, and the army has been called out.
I dont get it. Why does asylum need to involve ultimate citizenship? For example, when the caravan gets to the US, issue work permits for them to work. Thats all they want
Syrian refugees, teach them to rebuild. Give 5 year work permits and free classes.
Saidi Arabian women.. anywhere .. instant asylum.
But why the need to grant citizenship? To me, that is just deflecting the problem of failed states. Do you get my gist?
"Temporary" refuge status in the US should be simple -- but it isn't. It isn't because activists always fight attempts to end temporary protected status, and generally. Courts like the 9th Circuit can always find a reason to continue programs that should, logically and legally, end -- often citing a desire to "keep families together" (as the children born to even temporary refugees are US citizends under the current interpretation of the Constitution), or by questioning the motives behind ending the temporary program, or simply because they believe that anyone currently in the US should be allowed to stay there. No temporary program in the US is ever temporary. It's also relevant to not that MExico offered the current Caravan member temporary work visas, and they declined the offer.
ScotsAlan:
I get your point. But we need to differntiate between users and used. Babies are not users, They are used. From peasant Chinese grandmas sending their cosited toddler grandsons down riverbanks to colllect bottles, to the tiger moms who lie and cheat to get to the NY baby farms to give birth. The prostitutes who hook a john to get a visa. Adults can be evil and nasty. Its not the babys fault .
'I grew up in the '30s with an unemployed father. He didn't riot. He got on his bike and looked for work, and he kept looking till he found it.'
Norman Tebbit, Reagan era Thatcherite.
Should borders be a barrier to people seeking work?
The 1600 economic migrants we sent to the USA are writing back to the ones on Naru and telling them not to go to America because they have to work and play by the rules...hold out and try get to Australia they tell them
"Temporary" refuge status in the US should be simple -- but it isn't. It isn't because activists always fight attempts to end temporary protected status, and generally. Courts like the 9th Circuit can always find a reason to continue programs that should, logically and legally, end -- often citing a desire to "keep families together" (as the children born to even temporary refugees are US citizends under the current interpretation of the Constitution), or by questioning the motives behind ending the temporary program, or simply because they believe that anyone currently in the US should be allowed to stay there. No temporary program in the US is ever temporary. It's also relevant to not that MExico offered the current Caravan member temporary work visas, and they declined the offer.
ScotsAlan:
I get your point. But we need to differntiate between users and used. Babies are not users, They are used. From peasant Chinese grandmas sending their cosited toddler grandsons down riverbanks to colllect bottles, to the tiger moms who lie and cheat to get to the NY baby farms to give birth. The prostitutes who hook a john to get a visa. Adults can be evil and nasty. Its not the babys fault .
The simple solution of central Americans who don't speak English is not to walk 1000s of miles to the USA. The simple solution would be to go to the next nearest country that is not a shithole and speaks the same language. Why can't they seek asylum in Mexico?
Stiggs:
They probably feel that Mexico isn't much of an option either with poverty, gangs and crime similar to what they're running from.
If you're going to seek asylum somewhere it makes sense to go somewhere with the rule of law - including the right to seek asylum - that has always called itself land of the free, a nation of immigrants where anyone willing to work hard can make a decent life for themselves, the defender of human rights and common decency, give us your hungry masses etc etc... all the stuff the poor sods probably see and believe from watching American TV.
You can't really blame them for trying. Can't blame America for not wanting them either or letting them keep walking north to Canada.
hi2u:
Right, can't blame them for trying. However the fact that the US is better than Mexico is not a condition for asylum.
I wonder if those countries could join up with the States? Something like all those other territories...
Territories have always been a part of the U.S.[11] According to federal law, the term "United States", when used in a geographical sense, means "the continental United States, Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Guam, and the United States Virgin Islands".[12] Since political union with the Northern Mariana Islands in 1986, they too are treated as a part of the U.S.[12] An executive order adopted in 2007 includes American Samoa in the U.S. "geographical extent" as reflected in U.S. Department of State documents.[13]
The U.S. has five territories that are permanently inhabited: Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands in the Caribbean Sea; Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands in the Marianas archipelago in the western North Pacific Ocean; and American Samoa in the South Pacific Ocean.
Approximately 4 million people in these territories are U.S. citizens. U.S. citizenship at birth is granted in four of the five major territories. American Samoa has about 32,000 non-citizen U.S. nationals. Under U.S. law, among the territories, "only persons born in American Samoa and Swains Island are non-citizen U.S. nationals." American Samoans are under the protection of the U.S., with the ability to travel to the U.S. without a visa. However, to become U.S. citizens, American Samoans must naturalize as if they were foreigners. American Samoans don't have natural-born U.S. citizenship because the US Congress has not passed any legislation giving citizenship to residents of American Samoa (unlike the other 4 inhabited territories).
Each of these territories is an organized, self-governing territory with three branches of government, a locally elected governor, and a territorial legislature.
ScotsAlan:
On a similar idea, when europe had the migrant crisis, the EU worked to distribute the folk among different member states. I dont like what OZ do, but a similar thing could be done where partner states take ppl granted asylum.
ScotsAlan:
Like the EU? During the migrant crisis the EU tried to distribute asylum seekers through the community.
ScotsAlan:
Its done it again. I post. The post vanishes.Do another post, and the original appears.
Refugees are fleeing political persecution, or social upheaval, instability and other dangers. The premise is, it's not safe in their home country. The treaty of Rome stipulates that such people can apply for ASYLUM, shelter from danger. It is offered on humanitarian grounds.
Economic migrants are seeking wealth. Relative poverty is not a danger requiring a humanitarian intervention. When seeking to enter society as a foreigner, criteria must be met to allow that person to participate. If not, then there is a danger of economic prosperity causing long-term cultural damage from targeted immigration.
I'm of the opinion that the post-war treaty of Rome is in need of an overhaul. Asylum is an exceptional circumstance that was never intended to be so widespread, and the application and appeal system is being abused. Add to that the emerging conflicts, scarcity and global warming, and it becomes obvious that asylum can't be maintained in its current form.
Stiggs:
I haven't been following this much because it's just one more depressing story in the news to me really, but from what I understand they're not just running from poverty and economic woes, they're running from a brutal gang scene too. There's a lot of extortion and stand over stuff going on and if the local gang tells your son he's going to join them he'd better do just that, or get hacked up with a machete.
I understand your point though.
This story makes me think of people on an overcrowded lifeboat watching their ship sink and beating off other survivors who are trying to get on the lifeboat because one more person would sink it.
philbravery:
Well said coine...that's the most intelligent discription of the two models I've read
coineineagh:
What's also a concern, is that violence might be enacted in the country on order to gain "unsafe" status for a country. Take the example of an Afghan man sent back to his country after living and having kids in Britain. A few weeks later, his wife sees pictures of his dead body on social media. Britain sent a real asylum seekers back to his death. Sad story, but what about the motivations and aftermath? Many asylums from that region will now be approved. What if the asylums that get approved are relatives of the man's murderers? It teaches people that ruining their own country helps their families get in to a nicer country. Murder might even be rewarded this way. Tricky situation, needs a nuanced response.
philbravery:
Bloody Afghanistan. ..a lot of the people who worked for the Australian Government as interpreters got left behind with there families and now face danger every day...they proved their worth and should have been on yhe first planes out of there but our great government turned it's back on them...The Army to its credit is still trying to get them here
ScotsAlan:
Same with UK Government Phill. They left loads of Afghan interpreters behind too. Shame on them.
I would agree with you but you're not calculatings costs, safety and reality.
When it comes to providing jobs, you're pushing citizens out of work. And who's going to pay to house,feed and educate them? America is not a rich country. Just because there are a lot of rich people in a country doesn't make it rich.
Aside from the fact that Islamic terrorist do use the southern border as a means of entry into the US (and hide amongst refugees:France) there are safety concerns due to different cultures. Gangs are a way of life for those people as evidence by the fact that many join ethnic gangs upon arriving in the US. Also their culture embraces sexism while we're trying to do away with sexism.
And here's a bit more reality. Do you really think they're going to leave? Or will they take advantage of birthright citizenship to gain citizenship for themselves. Getting in is the tough part, getting them out is near impossible. Look at history
ScotsAlan:
History yup. England and Holland could not get rid of the Mayflower fast enough.
ScotsAlan:
I saw some interviews of trumpsters attending a trump rally. One of the guys said too send some to him. He has jobs for them.
Re the caravan. Jeff Sessions got a superb heckling at an event to promote religious freedom. A priest stood up and shouted (paraphrasing), ' Repent jeff. repent your sins in the name of Jesus'. He quoted some Jesus stuff about travellers and strangers. You know the passages.
He was escorted out.
Another priest started... this is a meeting about religious freedom.. and you kicked a preist out who spoke the truth.
He got kicked out too.
All the while, the trumpsters were crying out.. shame on you.. go home. get out.
Given that God has a wiked sense of humour, what with him inventing parasites, cancer and peodophiles, it struck me. What if God put a new Jesus in the caravan? Yup, I know Jesus is a common name in Latin America. But what if one of them in the caravan is the real next Jesus.
The have been saying there are middle easterners hiding in the caravan after all.
The evangelists pray for the second coming, but they rather limit the allowable demographics for his/her entry into humanity. God must be getting rather fustrated that everytime he sends a new messiah they get bombed back home by a drone.
diverdude1:
New messiah? Sorry Scots but me & you have different interpretations of the Holy Bible.
Jesus Christ, Son Of God
Most Relevant Verses
When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
"I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.
For to which of the angels did He ever say, "YOU ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU"? And again, "I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME"?
and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."
While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, "This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!"
and a voice came out of the heavens: "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
ScotsAlan:
Yeah. I was thinking of more pertinent passages. Such as Matt 35:25. You know.. passages that are actually relvavent to the subject. 'For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in'. Thats the stuff sessions and pence dont like.
diverdude1:
yeah, it really is too bad that people can't seem to be good and treat each other good. well,,, guess we really have fallen. oh well,,, maybe someday we will follow the Commandments.
