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Posts: 62

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Q: I want to terminate my contract, recruier doesn't have a position for me.No job - no payment.. (((

I signed a contract with the agy who send teachers to schools (very typical story I suppose).

My contract expires on July 2016. I have been staying with them for just 6 months and now it’s already the third school they want me to work in. Moreover the agy says there are no available positions for me now (how is it possible that after Spring Festival no positions in China?), because new positions distributions base on the previous school feedback. So the agy accused me this is my fault they don’t have a position for me.

But I cannot stay out of work for a long time because I am not paid for that period due to the contract. So I texted to a manager and asked to give me the letter of cancelation and my FEC and I will seek for a job by my own. At the end of the day she replied that she will give me the cancelation letter out but concerning to the FEC she wants me to see in the office and talk about it. So I have some questions: 1. What do you think she wants me to talk to about? 2. Do you believe that I have a chance to receive all necessary paper from the current agy to enable a new employer renew my RP without paying penalty? 3. If they don’t agree that I leave them but still don’t provide me a job in a new school…what should I do? I still need to pay rent and buy food! (((( 4. What if I just deny their offers (shitty offers they will give me to make me work for them because the agency makes money on every single teacher) and start working in another company without RP renewal procedure? Of cause I realize that the best way to negotiate that is a peaceful way. When I first texted to the manager I said that I very appreciate everything they did for me during the period of my contract and they are so wonderful company and the all I want that everybody was happy, and if I am not a happy teacher I will affect the company face which I really want to avoid because they are so nice guys… and all stuff like that… (of cause I am not going to accuse them… just flattering). But honestly I hate that agy! If knew how they have treated teachers I would hardly ever have signed with them! A friend of mine who also had a bad experience with that agy told me his bad story: he arrived to China and stayed 1 MONTH without job in the HOTEL! Because they couldn’t find available position for him during the entire month! I also stayed two weeks without job and with no payment in the middle of semester because the company decided to place another teacher to my position! So please, tell me if anyone else had such a bad experience when you signed with a recruiter, arrived to China but recruiter didn’t provide a teaching position for you. I know you will suggest to call to SAFEA. I thought about it. I even know their location in my city. But if I complain wouldn’t it affect my reputation as an employee who causes troubles for employer? I don’t want to leave China in next few years and even want to stay in the same city. So it’s very important for me to resolve the problem in the sweetest way.

8 years 5 weeks ago in  Visa & Legalities - China

 
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Stop rea-ding my PMsurprise:

 

Reason given as 'you're not good teacher' is just a reason. At the other school, it might not be the same, but Co. will use it, if asked for the reason of termination.

 

1. First and most important is 'you need new Residence permit sponsor (school)', and you should be talking to other schools already. If you didn't start with looking for new RP sponsor, I suggest you contact employment agents. I have three reliable Chinese agents, and I can forward it to you.

2. You will most likely need SAFEA's help and advice, what I'm seeing from 'your employer has an excuse to terminate contract' ready.

If you didn't violate the Contract in any way (being late or missing the classes, drunk, and similar), SAFEA will most likely help you.

The most important thing you need from your old employer is Release letter (it's in Chinese, and it state 'you don't own to employer anything') and FEC Cancel Certificate.

You can ask for both documents at SAFEA straight away. By Chinese law, your employer must submit both docs. to you or your new employer in 30-days after your last working day.

 

If you'll get new RP sponsor/employer, you won't be required to exit China. Without RP sponsor, you should make yourself ready for return home. If you plan to return to work in China again, you'll be looking for new RP sponsor and new Z application, after you sign new Contract from your home.

 

Your old employer must take you to PSB (Entry Exit police) few days before RP expiration. You will get 30-days L (or 30-days RP extension), which you can use for traveling to the new employer site, new MExam, and other things, before you'll get RP extension for the length of new Contract. If you want to exit China, 30-days is time given for the exit prep (packing, travelling).

 

I must go to cops now. I just returned from out of China yesterday. I'll write more later or just ask more questions.

Read your Contract again, especially part of the 'reasons for the Contract termination'.

Your thing might classify in 'Force Majeure', as 'employer doesn't have an open position anymore'.

icnif77:

You said above your employer wants to quit you!

Now, you're saying, you want to quit?

These are two different procedures, and I went through both several times.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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iryna_keis:

sorry icnif77, due to only 100 characters are allowed in a title bar i skip a pronoun and confused all of you... ))) I want to terminate! Not the company! of cause they want me to stay to make money on me! This is the agency who hire teachers, then, when you arrive, they arrange so called trainings and prepare you for demo class, then they negotiate a position in a school and bring you for an interview there... yesterday i reread my contract and there even were mentioned "company teaching position are managed and operated with a rotation... about 2-3 months or once a semester. if a foreign teacher is rotated, foreign teacher should be complaint to the company's arrangements and continue providing good quality service'... such a bullshit, but they said they don't have available position for me and i should wait! When i asked how long i should wait, they said they don't know! Idiotic! This is the reason why i want to quit! Even for non native its not a big deal to find an esl job! I can even find two or three part time and feel more then happy about it! But the reason why they cant offer me a job right now. they said its because of bad feedback from the previous school! Every month i filled in a performance shit in a previous school. And they always signed them without any remarks! I never been late and always were well prepared to my classes! My salary never been fined, u have never got any warnings! So why I am so bad teacher now??? btw... i have all performance papers with me which prove i never obeyed any teaching rules and i will tell manager that i m gonna show these shits to SAFEA. But i am afraid that fucking agency has guanxi (i am not sure if i write it correct, i got to know this word from this website )))

8 years 5 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Don't waste your time with threatening of present employer. Call SAFEA, and see your options.

 

'No work/salaries' is one of the reasons, you can resign your present Contract, and keep your RP intact.

 

Find new WP sponsor, and after you sign new Contract, resign your present job with Resignation notice, if possible. 

I usually follow the Contract, and resign with 30-days notice.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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iryna_keis:

I ve just checked my contract. The breach provisions section. Its said that "a teacher should submit a hand written application 3  month in advance.... wars, natural disasters, and OTHER MAJOR FORCES can exempt that a foreign teacher can resign or terminate the contract ahead of time"... so tomorrow I will demand to consider my issue NO JOB/NO PAYMENT to OTHER MAJOR FORCES.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Don't talk to your employer about it. Ask for an advice at SAFEA.

 

'Find new employer' is first!

8 years 5 weeks ago
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iryna_keis:

just received a message from the Co, no need to come tomorrow because manager is in another city now and they will  rearrange an appointment to another day but during this week. So I will go to SAFEA office tomorrow morning and talk to them first, and will reinforce a job seeking process.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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8 years 5 weeks ago
 
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I would say it's time to look for a new job.

 

In a way, your situation is not that bad. You have been given plenty of notice, and you can transfer your work permit over easily enough. If you network with the other teachers it should be easy enough to find another employer.

 

I work in Manufacturing, and it's brutal when an employer terminates your contract. You get called into the office and you leave the premises 20 minutes later. That's the shadow I have hanging over me.

 

As a matter of interest, what do you teach?

iryna_keis:

Thank you for reply. But its not the employer but I want to terminate contract. And tomorrow I have a conversation with a company manager about it. That s why i created this post - to get ready to conversation. Because I think a manager will try to persuade me to stay with them or will ask to pay penalty. Both options are undesirable for me.

I teach English btw... and i am non native speaker if you mean this, but please don't turn out the issue how good or bad my english is... everyone knows there are not enough natives... and i don't ask for 30000 RMB monthly salary, so i am not a competitor for highly qualified native esl teachers )))) so please. i really need your help, but answer due to the questions in my post. Thank you :)

8 years 5 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

I would wait till after your meeting then decide if you want to call SAFEA or not.

 

If your meeting goes against you and they refuse to give you a release letter, ask them politely if they would like you to contact SAFEA to mediate.

 

You could also say you have been looking online to find a solution to find out what the law says etc.

 

Good luck.

 

 

8 years 5 weeks ago
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It sounds like the whole job is a bit dogy/borderline illegal (not your fault!).

 

An FEC and resident permit is supposed to be issued for you to work at one school. If you are working for an agency who is "sub-letting" you to different schools then that doesn't sound fully legal to me.

 

She wants to talk to you about the FEC? Maybe that is because there isn't one. They might have gotten you a work permit from a dubious source. Have you ever seen your FEC?

 

You should be able to resign with one monhts notice according to Chinese law. the employer must then give you a release letter and a receipt for the cancellation of your wortk permit or FEC, whichever you have. They are legally obliged to give you these.

 

Key thing tomorrow in the meeting is to be calm and polite as you know. Ask see your FEC. They shouldn't keep it anyway, it should be in your possession. If they start to push back say you are going to ring SAFEA for advice. Don't make it sound like a threat, just say you were advised to do this to ensure the law and contract was followed.

 

Also start looking for another job now but don't just quit. As you say, you need the money.

iryna_keis:

I think the procedure of obtaining RP was legal. It was me who submitter paper to PSB (this company didn't apply for Z visa, they just extended my previous RP from my previous school in another province). When I and a guy from the company went to PSB he wasn't even allowed to come to PSB officer - the guy gave me out all papers - medical check, WP, invitation letter, pictures, FEC and i came to the officer alone. But I agree that its not legally when you signed directly with the agency but work in a school. But we all know, this is China...

8 years 5 weeks ago
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silverbutton1:

what if you are working for a school that is sub letting (sub contacting) you to another school?  Is that legal ? any info/advice greatly appreciated. thx

8 years 4 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

Technically no. I suppose it depends if it's permanent "sub-letting" or temporary. Some training centres can't employ foreigners (not in business long enough, wrong type of business license, etc). So they get the FEC issued from another one to get round this. Don't know what would happen if the authorities found out. 

8 years 4 weeks ago
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icnif77:

It's legal under one condition: 'FEC must be issued by working city SAFEA'.

Z visa can be sponsored by one Co., which has contract with different schools around China, where FT is eventually employed. 

Many Co. in China works that way: Helen Group, Hangzhou; English First Kunshan.... 

8 years 4 weeks ago
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8 years 5 weeks ago
 
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Stop rea-ding my PMsurprise:

 

Reason given as 'you're not good teacher' is just a reason. At the other school, it might not be the same, but Co. will use it, if asked for the reason of termination.

 

1. First and most important is 'you need new Residence permit sponsor (school)', and you should be talking to other schools already. If you didn't start with looking for new RP sponsor, I suggest you contact employment agents. I have three reliable Chinese agents, and I can forward it to you.

2. You will most likely need SAFEA's help and advice, what I'm seeing from 'your employer has an excuse to terminate contract' ready.

If you didn't violate the Contract in any way (being late or missing the classes, drunk, and similar), SAFEA will most likely help you.

The most important thing you need from your old employer is Release letter (it's in Chinese, and it state 'you don't own to employer anything') and FEC Cancel Certificate.

You can ask for both documents at SAFEA straight away. By Chinese law, your employer must submit both docs. to you or your new employer in 30-days after your last working day.

 

If you'll get new RP sponsor/employer, you won't be required to exit China. Without RP sponsor, you should make yourself ready for return home. If you plan to return to work in China again, you'll be looking for new RP sponsor and new Z application, after you sign new Contract from your home.

 

Your old employer must take you to PSB (Entry Exit police) few days before RP expiration. You will get 30-days L (or 30-days RP extension), which you can use for traveling to the new employer site, new MExam, and other things, before you'll get RP extension for the length of new Contract. If you want to exit China, 30-days is time given for the exit prep (packing, travelling).

 

I must go to cops now. I just returned from out of China yesterday. I'll write more later or just ask more questions.

Read your Contract again, especially part of the 'reasons for the Contract termination'.

Your thing might classify in 'Force Majeure', as 'employer doesn't have an open position anymore'.

icnif77:

You said above your employer wants to quit you!

Now, you're saying, you want to quit?

These are two different procedures, and I went through both several times.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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iryna_keis:

sorry icnif77, due to only 100 characters are allowed in a title bar i skip a pronoun and confused all of you... ))) I want to terminate! Not the company! of cause they want me to stay to make money on me! This is the agency who hire teachers, then, when you arrive, they arrange so called trainings and prepare you for demo class, then they negotiate a position in a school and bring you for an interview there... yesterday i reread my contract and there even were mentioned "company teaching position are managed and operated with a rotation... about 2-3 months or once a semester. if a foreign teacher is rotated, foreign teacher should be complaint to the company's arrangements and continue providing good quality service'... such a bullshit, but they said they don't have available position for me and i should wait! When i asked how long i should wait, they said they don't know! Idiotic! This is the reason why i want to quit! Even for non native its not a big deal to find an esl job! I can even find two or three part time and feel more then happy about it! But the reason why they cant offer me a job right now. they said its because of bad feedback from the previous school! Every month i filled in a performance shit in a previous school. And they always signed them without any remarks! I never been late and always were well prepared to my classes! My salary never been fined, u have never got any warnings! So why I am so bad teacher now??? btw... i have all performance papers with me which prove i never obeyed any teaching rules and i will tell manager that i m gonna show these shits to SAFEA. But i am afraid that fucking agency has guanxi (i am not sure if i write it correct, i got to know this word from this website )))

8 years 5 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Don't waste your time with threatening of present employer. Call SAFEA, and see your options.

 

'No work/salaries' is one of the reasons, you can resign your present Contract, and keep your RP intact.

 

Find new WP sponsor, and after you sign new Contract, resign your present job with Resignation notice, if possible. 

I usually follow the Contract, and resign with 30-days notice.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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iryna_keis:

I ve just checked my contract. The breach provisions section. Its said that "a teacher should submit a hand written application 3  month in advance.... wars, natural disasters, and OTHER MAJOR FORCES can exempt that a foreign teacher can resign or terminate the contract ahead of time"... so tomorrow I will demand to consider my issue NO JOB/NO PAYMENT to OTHER MAJOR FORCES.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Don't talk to your employer about it. Ask for an advice at SAFEA.

 

'Find new employer' is first!

8 years 5 weeks ago
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iryna_keis:

just received a message from the Co, no need to come tomorrow because manager is in another city now and they will  rearrange an appointment to another day but during this week. So I will go to SAFEA office tomorrow morning and talk to them first, and will reinforce a job seeking process.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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8 years 5 weeks ago
 
Posts: 126

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Which recruiter agency is this? Is it Rockies?

Don't try to go to SAFEA, you have no FEC and I am sure you are working in China illegally. It's not normal practice for teachers to keep rotating between schools, you should only work at one location for the time of the contract. Go back to your home country, start applying for jobs again but this time do not go to China unless the school (not the agency) sends you an invitation letter and your work permit with the school's address on it.

iryna_keis:

but i have RP in my passport! How it can be illegally? How is it possible to get RP without FEC?

8 years 5 weeks ago
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Chhris:

What documents did you receive from this agency before you came to China?

8 years 5 weeks ago
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iryna_keis:

i have already mentioned that my agency (its not Rockies) extended my RP. I finished contract with the previous employer. The previous employer emailed a reference letter and a letter of cancelation to FEC to my current agency who  just reapplied. I didn't leave China prior the visa renewal process hadn't been finished. After i received my passport from the PSB with a new RP i went to my home country for summer holidays and then came back to China. But you suppose it still can be illegal?crying

8 years 5 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Once, you received passport back from PSB with new RP valid till the date of the Contract expiration, that is correct, legal process. You can exit and enter China as many times as you want during that time.

Some 10 days after your arrival to China, you should receive FEC, which should remain in your possession and it's needed in Banks as 2nd ID document. It must be canceled by employer as you stopped working for them. Employer must give FEC to FT as soon as SAFEA issue it (approx. 10 days after you arrived to China).

8 years 5 weeks ago
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iryna_keis:

Thank yoou icnif77. I knew that i would rather listen to those with more than 9000 points then with 81 )))) During the validation of my current RP i traveled to three different countries and came back. and never been asked any single question on Chinese border! So how is it possible that i have RP but don't have FEC??? FEC is issued before RP right? If I didn't submit FEC to PSB with a RP application how would I get RP????

8 years 5 weeks ago
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icnif77:

FEC must be canceled by employer at the end of the Contract. Employers try to avoid not having FEC at the end, so they like to keep FEC in the drawer. This is the only reason, you don't have FEC.

FEC is dark blue covered, passport size booklet with some 6 pages. Your pic, sign, school's/working place address, and validity is written there. It belongs to you. 

You can mention about not having FEC at the talk with SAFEA.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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iryna_keis:

some updates from me... today i talked to SAFEA. My question was: what should i do if my employer doesn't provide me with a job and leave out of payment, and doesn't have time to meet with me. They asked some questions such as: when did i arrive to China, whether i have FEC and when it expires, i mentioned that agy keeps it in their office... they asked my recruiter's name and the manager' s contact number. I answered all their questions. After 15 minutes after the end of phone conversation with SAFEA officer I got a message from my recruiter with an arrangement of appointment with a manager on Friday this week... i didnt tell SAFEA that I want to terminate the contract with this company... I will see later what to do... and i will go there again if i will not be satisfied. So now brainstorming ))) what do you think the manager is going to tell me on Friday? I don't think she was happy to get a call from SAFEA today... you understand... i have two options... maybe she will start offering me positions to make me shout up or maybe she is so angry now that will be happy to say goodbye and never see me again and give me my papers.... What is the worst outcome of my situation? I want to get ready...

8 years 5 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

You know that most of Icnif's 9000 points come from ridiculous posts and comments that people don't read or understand??

 

:p

8 years 4 weeks ago
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8 years 5 weeks ago
 
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"letter of cancelation and my FEC and I will seek for a job by my own"

 

I don't mean this in a harsh way. But you should try finding a job teaching your native language. 

As ici stated you're looking at it the wrong way. It's not that there aren't any jobs it's that you aren't fit for them. 

Agencies are a way for schools to skirt the law and hire people who wouldn't qualify normally. Also they are a way for schools who aren't licensed to hire foreigners to have a foreign teacher. 

This can be an opportunity to get good teachers work (not all unqualified teachers are bad teachers, not all qualified teachers are good teachers). This can be a good opportunity to get deserving students good teachers. But this is China, agencies hire any piece of crap that they find. If you are white and schools don't want you (your case), you must be absolutely horrible. 

 

 

iryna_keis:

the school i used to work was licensed. it belongs to group of schools which has their own HR department. And it hires foreign teachers by themselves. The reason they hired me was - one FT immediately quitted and they didn't have time to find a new one. That's why they asked my agy to give them a teacher (me). But at the beginning I was told that its very likely that i wouldn't work at that school after Chinese new year because its cheaper to hire teachers by their own then through agencies and pay commission.  Thank you for time. You are so kind that respond to such a horrible teacher like me.

8 years 5 weeks ago
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8 years 5 weeks ago
 
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I got a call back from SAFEA today. The officer told me there wont be any problem with my RP renewal. And explained the whole procedure step by step and told me i can explain it to the former and a new employers. I said that they both know it and the purpose i called to administration was to check that everything will go well. She even apologized that she made me wait when she negotiated my issue with her boss, because she is a newbie and has lack of experience. And she told me to feel free to ask SAFEA for help whenever I meet any problems ))) I dont know if they all are so helpful or I was lucky with that girl. Anyway I am very happy with the situation outcome. Thankfully to icnif77's persistence about speaking to SAFEA my situation seems to be turned out to the best. To be honest i worried that my Co. would get angry about it and will cause me even more troubles to revenge. Life in China and Chinese laws dont look so bad now )))))))))

Hotwater:

Good news and nice to get feedback on your issue. 

8 years 4 weeks ago
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8 years 4 weeks ago
 
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One oft the bigger questions left unanswered and directly affects everything here... which part of the country are you in?

 

Most agencies suck! They will take a large portion of your monthly salary (sometimes getting more than 50% - ie, more than you!)

 

Perhaps you should apply directly to the schools yourself?

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Answer of the DayMORE >>
A:  "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "S
A: "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "Shenzhen agent can connect you with an employer, who's authorized to hire waigouren ... and can sponsor Z visa." It's not like every 10th person you meet in Shenzhen's hood can sponsor work visa ...  The only way to change from student to labourer visa is just a regular way by: 1. Finding an employer, who'll apply for an Invitation letter; 2. Exit China and apply for Z visa in your home country's Chinese embassy; 3. Enter China in 30-days after Z visa was stamped into your travelling instrument ...As I am aware, you won't be able to switch to Working permit by remaining in China....,so make ready for a return to your home .... -- icnif77