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Posts: 513

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Q: Is It Just Me Or.....

Not that I care or anything, but since the new laws for foreigner teachers came out....have any of you noticed there are more non-native Eng speakers than ever before?  I mention this because yesterday I met this Polish girl, we had a short conversation just basically said hi and talked for 5 minutes. She told me she was working at this English school teaching oral English...that's fine and everything...but fuck, she could not speak English. My dog understands more English then she does. This is no joke.  It was horrible. She spoke like she just started learning English a week ago. I was thinking to myself what made you think you can teach English, even to little kids?? And worst yet, who hired this person?? I've been out of English teaching for years now....but before it seemed to be a higher quality stock of teachers.

 

I'm not trying to sound mean, I met lots of non-natives that could teach English better than most, maybe had an accent but at least knew the language quite well. I know some that were really bad at English but could get by teaching kids...like apple, orange, he/she I like /I don't like..ect..this is the worst I've seen yet. I't took her 5 minutes to get out 2 or 3 sentences...and it was 90% wrong. I could just barely make it out. Really nice girl...I just don't know what she was doing teaching English. It would be like me thinking I could go to Japan and teach Japanese...and I know very little Japanese...maybe 20 words.

 

I just dont come across many natives English speakers anymore....maybe its just me and where I live...I don't know...just seems funny to me. Anyone else noticed this?

 

Like I said, I'm for anyone wanting to teach English, legally or illegally, black, white, blue ,green from any country or whatever....but your skill should be higher than a 2-year-old Chinese kid.

6 years 9 weeks ago in  Teaching & Learning - China

 
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I've heard that with the new visa stuff schools are having a much harder time recruiting teachers.

 

I think that if people are going to have to go to the same trouble to get the visa as they would if they were going to Korea, Japan etc then they might as well just go to Korea , Japan etc where they can do things like use the internet freely and send their money home without it being a massive pain in the arse.

diverdude1:

Yep, after many years here in lovely commieland I sure have my feelers out.  The adventure continues sort of thing,,, like Colombia, back to TL or Myanmar, maybe Indonesia?  even thinking about way west PRC, like Urumuqi or even some other place out there that has fallen off the map.. or maybe go see 77 in Krasnodar, haha,,,, 

6 years 9 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Have a read at Dave's ESL Cafe, China Teacher's Board what some Native English teachers must go through to get Z visa.

In Russia, Russian English teachers take big part at English teaching, however most of them speak English fluently and without heavy accent.

6 years 9 weeks ago
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Lee521:

yes,i agree.

6 years 9 weeks ago
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biggj123:

Yeah seems no point in going through all that trouble when there are far better and healthier options. My wife is Chinese..that's the only reason I come here...i'm kind of stuck with china. I like it though...but i can think of better spots to be on the regular.

6 years 9 weeks ago
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6 years 9 weeks ago
 
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One of those mysteries of the Chinese psyche.  I live in McFkNowheresville.  The English teachers (Chinese) at the local HS blew my mind.  I was in a conversation with one and somehow it lead to me sitting there repeating Cat / Dog , Cat / Dog ,  she was like huh?

I was like,,,, WTF?  I got kinda mean though, I said something like 'You are an English teacher?'  It's fkn amazing.  Then it occured to me (for the thousandth time), they teach from those silly little English textbooks.  They never speak English, and they never hear spoken English.  I'm the first weiguoren that has ever showed up around here. And being a public HS, no one gives a flyin' fk.  Do my time, get my pittance, repeat.

biggj123:

Yeah, some of the Chinese English teachers are horrible, they are usually pretty good at written and grammar on paper...but to speak English...wow.

 

Its none of my business really...its just boggles my mind to think this person must have gone through some interview to get this job and someone thought she could do it lol..She was white..dirty blonde hair...not too bad looking....it had to have been 100% because of her looks....because it was most definitely not English skills lol.

 

Oh well...not my concern lol

6 years 9 weeks ago
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diverdude1:

Exactly, the ladies here can work the textbooks just fine, but try to have a conversation with them.  About like me attempting putonghua.  surprise

6 years 9 weeks ago
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Stiggs:

Often the students, who all go to classes outside of school, speak better English than their public school teachers.

 

It's understandable, the teachers most likely never had the chance to go to any evening / weekend classes with foreign teachers when they were kids.

6 years 9 weeks ago
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6 years 9 weeks ago
 
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I've heard that with the new visa stuff schools are having a much harder time recruiting teachers.

 

I think that if people are going to have to go to the same trouble to get the visa as they would if they were going to Korea, Japan etc then they might as well just go to Korea , Japan etc where they can do things like use the internet freely and send their money home without it being a massive pain in the arse.

diverdude1:

Yep, after many years here in lovely commieland I sure have my feelers out.  The adventure continues sort of thing,,, like Colombia, back to TL or Myanmar, maybe Indonesia?  even thinking about way west PRC, like Urumuqi or even some other place out there that has fallen off the map.. or maybe go see 77 in Krasnodar, haha,,,, 

6 years 9 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Have a read at Dave's ESL Cafe, China Teacher's Board what some Native English teachers must go through to get Z visa.

In Russia, Russian English teachers take big part at English teaching, however most of them speak English fluently and without heavy accent.

6 years 9 weeks ago
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Lee521:

yes,i agree.

6 years 9 weeks ago
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biggj123:

Yeah seems no point in going through all that trouble when there are far better and healthier options. My wife is Chinese..that's the only reason I come here...i'm kind of stuck with china. I like it though...but i can think of better spots to be on the regular.

6 years 9 weeks ago
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6 years 9 weeks ago
 
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General

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Which city?

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6 years 9 weeks ago
 
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There is no other choice, but Chinese English teachers must take over teaching of English in China, however Chinese Teachers English level didn't improve much since (ever) .... 2009, I came first time to China.

 

I met two Chinese English teachers in Bijie, Guizhou last year with acceptable English pronunciation, but both lack of fluency.

 

Chinese English teaching is just Chinese-(English)-teaching .... more pose than real results, reflexion of 'face-culture'.

 

Chinese English fluency would improve more overall, if Native English teachers in China would teach English to Chinese English teachers more than what we do and teach Chinese students.

However, 'face' prevents acceptance of that approach.

 

Even enormous number of Chinese English students (300 M) should tell Chinese management that there aren't enough English teachers in the whole world to satisfy that demand.

 

diverdude1:

Yeah, that's the funniest thing here.  I stated several times to the Principal and Head Teacher that I was ready and willing to conduct official staff training sessions or just simple English Corner type practice sessions with the teaching staff.  Zero response.  They have that weird 'face' thing going on, like they are saying to themselves 'I'm an expert in English, I don't need to practice with a native speaker', or something weird like that.  I've just been like 'oh well, keep having a teaching staff that has minimal oral proficiency. You will fit right in with the Chinese educational system.'

6 years 9 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Stupidity of 'face'! For them it's embarrassing to be taught English, after they've got their English teaching diplomas. 

If I turn around, I could be a master of Chinese language teaching, but I would always listen and improve my Chinese by Native Chinese speaker/teacher.

I guess, Chinese consider the same as 'weakness', buTT .... you can't improve your knowledge (of English) till you don't admit there's somebody better than you and you could learn more.

Chinese English teachers can have all my Chinese English students! Good riddance to both!

6 years 9 weeks ago
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Stiggs:

Part of the problem -aside from the face thing - is that results are measured according to a test, and the kids are drilled to regurgitate the answers to the questions when they see them, not actually to understand what is being asked.

 

So for example give a kid 50 multi choice questions and he will be able to answer a, d, b, c, d, a... etc because the test has been drilled for weeks in class - when you see this question, the answer is C -  but he probably couldn't answer the questions if you were to change them slightly and verbally ask him.

 

To the school the kid aced the test so his English is great but if he were to try to have a conversation in English he'd be hopeless.

 

But, their English is 'great', the tests prove it so why would they need to do anything different or help the teachers brush up on their English?

 

6 years 9 weeks ago
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diverdude1:

yeah Stiggs,,, I hear you about the exam driven / rote learning thing.  It just gets my goat though!  I walk into class and sabotage? the system, haha,,  I look right at the class and tell them that learning from the textbook is all good and fine and all that, but if they show up in the 'real world' and go wander around the US, Canada, UK, etc .... no one is going to be handing them a textbook,,, they are going to try to strike up a conversation and if you can't, you'll pretty much get skipped over for whatever, be it social or biz,,,, (unless of course u are a hot hotty, then a 100 guys will offer to tutor u on the spot (:

6 years 9 weeks ago
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biggj123:

Yeah, i agree man. They should take what they can get...and well judging by all the people on wrong visas..they kind of do lol. They should have some type of test you have to take to get a work visa for teaching English. For native and non-native. Give everyone a chance at least.

6 years 9 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Application for an English teaching job in China and all docs. requirement is similar to application to Cape Canaveral ....

6 years 9 weeks ago
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Stiggs:

@biggj.. yep, ideally a test would be a good idea,if you can pass then you can teach in China regardless of where you're from.

I can't count the number of times I've seen English teachers posting who can't use your / you're or their / there / they're... make basic spelling mistakes, don't know the difference between to and too and you just shake your head and think WTF...

 

The thing is though, if the public school English teachers can barely speak the language then how would they ever find the thousands of people they would need with English good enough to judge native speakers ability in a test?

 

I suppose that's why they say the teacher should have a degree and be a native speaker. It's not perfect but for want of a better way to ensure some sort of standard I guess it's reasonable enough.

 

 

 

 

6 years 9 weeks ago
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6 years 9 weeks ago
 
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Most of the non-high-tier-city money is in teaching to very young kids. Colours, numbers, the alphabet. English ability requirements aren't that high. If she has a bad accent though, that'll hurt the kids.

biggj123:

The accent was one thing...it was really thick..but you could look past that. It just was her basic knowledge of English. She had the English skill of a Chinese taxi driver.

6 years 9 weeks ago
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6 years 9 weeks ago
 
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Lets get the terms right, not visa, but rather WP= Working permit I think its more than just the Work Permit but rather the Work permit that proves our qualifications are NOT upping the market salary with a growing China and a huge growing number of 2nd child policy children being born, I don't know if you noticed but salaries went 10% down rather than up, so teachers are asking themselves why the heck would I come here for that salary?

 

I've seen a lot of jobs but none that pay well and like Biggj123 points out in Shenzhen I am also seeing tons of none native teachers and their accents makes me roll my eyes, sorry I've been a reading & phonics teachers for years and that accent won't cut it no matter what degree they hold, there's a reason for the new the new WP cards and the score of a B, but its not being used as it should be.

 

The next 10 years of China are going to be busy and great for us teachers, stay put and relax and wait, all will work out for us who stay put, don't keep changing jobs.

biggj123:

Yeah I agree its going to get busy for people here. Around 2020 most of the new "2 child policy" kids will be around 5 years old. I understand China not wanting all the worlds unemployable idiots coming to teach English... but i don't know what the solution is though, another guy said, there are not enough English teachers in the world to do the job...but you should also get people who can at least speak English. Thats why you don't see too many deportations of people working illegally..only when they fuck up, like arrested or causing trouble ect..it cant be hard to find these people if they really wanted to...if you have a Russian passport and your teaching...they should know something is up.

 

I guess the schools just take who they can get. As long as you look the part lol.

6 years 9 weeks ago
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biggj123:

The whole WP and B rating only mattes if they are working legally. Half the problem is most schools cant hire foreigners anyway, and the ones that can sometimes still choose to hire illegals. Your only choice it seems would be to work for the best of the best when it comes to schools. 

6 years 9 weeks ago
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ironman510:

I thought that China finally put an end to long term L or F and or M visa's? Something I just thought of is I can't see how these schools can hire them on those Biz or Tourist visa's or even how they can get these teachers to do the visa run every 60 days because there are only a handful of cities that have a border to exit out and come back  in through?? I've already and sadly seen  teachers get through the WP card system with no degree, so the new system still has the 1900's so called loops holes that we were told were gonna be checked or they are turning a blind eye for now just because they need people to fill those spots while hoping for the best but you and I and others can easy be Matt Murdock (Daredevil) and use only our ears to listen & know someone is not qualified for oral language teaching nor training, that's not being rude or mean to them, its just FACT.  I wish everyone had a job but you at least need the tools to do it with, skills can be improved along the way with the tools and right attitude, otherwise if you don't have the tools these unqualified teachers from none native speaking countries are only hurting the children's education but in retrospect they are helping Wall Street, Meten and EF for future adult students who failed their English classes due to having a non native speaker as a teacher, that's my only positive view on it.

6 years 9 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Visa run isn't necessary with Business visa. I mean, ''it wasn't necessary!''.

I am not sure if it's the same today, but in 2009 or 10 Helen took my passport and get back with new 3-months extension in one afternoon, while I was in the classroom.

6 years 8 weeks ago
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6 years 9 weeks ago
 
Posts: 732

Shifu

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Good read. I think I should just start a Japanese school tomorrow and start teaching! 

biggj123:

If they apply the same standards in japan as they do in china you probably could lol

6 years 1 week ago
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6 years 1 week ago
 
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My daughter is doing English lessons on Saturdays now. Canadian teacher. Young dude.

From the videos the wife has sent me, all he does is play games with them. He speaks in English and a Chinese assistant repeats it in Chinese. No teaching at all.

But for me it is value for money. Because she is in an environment where she can speak English without being pointed or laughed at.

This Canadian guy has a heavy accent. I know Polish an Russian who speak English better.

Fuck.. I am a native speaker but my Chinese wife speaks better English than me.

This 'native speaker' rule is rubbish.

diverdude1:

couple of things....

 

not many Canucks speak lame English,,,, ok,, maybe some Montrealites,,, but you know what I mean.  So,, elucidate on why this poor chap can't rap Anglais any better than a Russkie/Polack?

 

And your Han'tsu wife raps better Anglais than you?? That I'd have to see (hear),,, ok, maybe she grew up outside of RedLand,, I can accept that, but not much else,,, your English doesn't suck,, you just carry your 'Brogue'.  Ain't nothing wrong with that,,, doesn't mean you don't understand,,, and could rap it if pushed, the Queen's English.

6 years 1 week ago
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ScotsAlan:

I am Scottish Diver. That puts me at the bottom of English speakers. My Chinese wife does indeed speak perfect English. She often has to translate what I say to my English bosses.

6 years 1 week ago
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A: In my personal experience, teaching certificates have varied in releva
A:In my personal experience, teaching certificates have varied in relevance depending on the context and location. Here's a breakdown of each aspect:a) Getting the teaching job: Teaching certificates can certainly enhance your chances of securing a teaching position, especially in formal educational settings such as schools and language institutions. Many employers prefer candidates who have undergone specific training in pedagogy and instructional techniques, which these certificates often provide. However, other factors such as experience, references, and the demand for teachers in a particular area also play significant roles in the hiring process.b) Getting a higher salary than your uncertified competitors: In some cases, holding a teaching certificate can indeed lead to a higher salary compared to uncertified competitors. Many educational institutions have structured salary scales that take into account factors such as level of education, years of experience, and additional certifications. Holding a teaching certificate may place you in a higher salary bracket or make you eligible for certain salary incentives or bonuses. However, this can vary widely depending on the specific policies of the institution or organization.c) Getting promotions: Teaching certificates can be beneficial for career advancement and securing promotions within the field of education. They demonstrate a commitment to professional development and mastery of teaching skills, which are qualities that many employers value when considering candidates for leadership positions or administrative roles. Additionally, some promotions may require specific certifications or qualifications, making holding a teaching certificate essential for advancement in certain cases.Regarding which certificate yields better results, it largely depends on the specific requirements of the job market and the educational context in which you intend to work. For example:A Postgraduate Certificate in Education (PGCE) is often highly regarded in formal school settings and can be advantageous for those seeking positions in primary or secondary education.Montessori certification is valuable for individuals interested in working in Montessori schools or implementing Montessori principles in their teaching approach.A Teaching English as a Foreign Language (TEFL) certificate is particularly relevant for those seeking to teach English to non-native speakers in international contexts or language schools.Ultimately, the best certificate for you will depend on your career goals, the specific requirements of the positions you're interested in, and the preferences of potential employers in your target job market. It's essential to research the requirements and preferences of employers in your desired field and tailor your qualifications accordingly. -- ruqaiya761