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Q: Is only allowing native speakers of English to legally teach in china reasonable?

But let's say that anyone can come to china with a degree and knowledge of English and can legally teach, would you not have a flood of people from poorer countries coming to china to teach English? They have this problem now and it's not allowed....so imagine if it was allowed..

 

And there are cases where you have a highly skillful, highly qualified person but not from an English speaking country that is denied a job.

 

Are the laws like this similar in Asian countries where ESL is popular?

 

 

7 years 3 weeks ago in  Visa & Legalities - China

 
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OMG - I cannot believe how ignorant the OP is!

 

Seriously!

 

Do you think the English that people speak all over the world has ONLY been taught by native speakers from the 'Big 5'???

 

So, to answer your question - hell yes! Non-native speakers of a language have every right to be able to teach a language if they are sufficiently qualified in the language, in teaching, AND experienced in using the language normally in the language environment.

 

Take a look (or listen) to all the Swedes, Danes, Norwegians, Germans, Finns, etc etc etc who speak AWESOME English (and yes, even Russians and Ukrainians, and Greeks, and and and... not to mention, the MANY peoples in Africa (Kenya, Tanzania, Nigeria, Botswana, to name a few) and the Carribean nations.

 

What the Chinese government needs to do is to STOP focussing solely on passport (cos, you know, even those passports do NOT indicate language ability... check out Canadian passports as a perfect example!) and actually base proficiency on ACCREDITED, internationally recognised tests! Put in specifics about 'no module (eg, speaking) less than X score", and voila! Problem solvered!

Shining_brow:

Oh, I should have added...

 

At uni, I did 1 year of Russian (all my teachers were Australian - although one was born in Russia, and another had Russian parents) and 1 year of Spanish (again, Australian teachers - mostly 2nd generation Aussies).

 

The difference between those teachers and Chinese teachers of English is that my teachers (non-native speakers of the language) is that they had at least spent time in their respective language's countries.... the 'pure' non-natives had lived in the country (Russia or South America... perhaps Spain) for a while, to effectively have to use the language.... It's VERY rare to speak to a Chinese teacher of English who has actually spent much time in the UK, Aus, US, Canada, NZ, SA, etc...

7 years 3 weeks ago
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biggj123:

DId you get past the headline of the question? I'm asking if maybe they have other motives instead of the quality of English teachers. Chinese are racist. Maybe they don't want a flood of colored poor people in their country? Maybe they just like white people? I get jobs thrown at me all the time just for being a handsome white Canadian while a black Nigerian would have to basically beg and plead to get a job. 

 

So is it reasonable?? I think its not but there are motives for doing this. I'm asking WHY they do this.

7 years 3 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Do you know the reason why Chinese schools want only Native English teachers?

 

Because, their English level is too low to judge one's English ability. Only Native English passport holder can assure them proper English is taught.

 

 

7 years 3 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

Yeah, Biggs, I did read the whole thing...

 

And basically NOTHING about it suggests (or even clearly IMPLIES) your asking about the motivations behind it... (which, btw, has been discussed numerous times on this forum).

 

Given that I've been given 5 upvotes, it seems that at least a few other people on here agreed with what I wrote (granted, there are 3 downs - but some are the usual wumaos, and I presume one is yours...). It also suggests that at least 5 others (I don't vote for my own posts...) also didn't see the 'motivation' that you say was implied in the question...

 

And, to Chinese, obviously - it IS 'reasonable' (with Chinese logic). Why does it 'make sense' for Chinese business people to aggressively sabotage their own business and interests, just because they might lose face in front of their foreign partners??? Is it 'reasonable' to continue lying and cheating? To them, yes...

7 years 3 weeks ago
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I am happy it isn't allowed, I go to Hong Kong every weekend, I can't tell you how terrible it looks seeing hundreds of people (I won't point out the nationality) just sitting outside on new papers and boxes eating, I mean its not just in a few places, it was every where, hey it is nice to have a good chat with your friends, but not like this, it made my parents feel HK was a poor city of China just seeing these foreigners gathered in groups all over the place and I mean every where, I don't want China to look like this and China closes its borders for a reason, just look at what is happening around America and England, the people we let in from "all over the world" are attacking our people. Good Job China, don't let them in.

earthizen:

If you go there on Sundays or other public holidays, those people you see gathering in HK's Central District (CBD), and parks, are mostly Filipino domestic helpers enjoying their day off. The CBD, before Hongkongers start hiring them, is like most CBDs in other countries, deserted ghost towns during holidays as all the banks and businesses closed down. Their arrival and making use of it during public holidays pose little problems for Hongkongers so for decades literally no one ever complained.

 

It is only after certain lowly evolved creatures who go to HK under the disguise of tourists and worse, emigrants. Filled with jealosy, hatred, and malevolent intentions not unlike those of terrorists, they hit HK in swarms. HKers finally had enough of it, to the extend of demanding independence.

 

Tons of charitable material from underwear (no exaggeration) to cash are given freely to daluren for decades, even through smuggling personally by plenty of Hongkongers, most of them now regret their wasted kindness and worse, feeding vipers instead of underdogs which had every intention to kill their feeders once they grew big enough. Obviously, their targets are not limited to HK, all developed countries are their targets, as the smarter ones in these countries, like Hongkongers finally realiase.

 

'Nasty surprises !!!', I actually heard this said by these low lives, accompanied by a cold laugh filled with hatred and resentment. This is the same kind of laugh from terrorists upon seeing the death and sufferings of those they kill or torture, who are better off than them, one way or the other. Terrorists, mainlanders, dalurens, thieves, liars, abusers.....labels, a rotten apple is a rotten apple, call it whatever you want.

7 years 3 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

You must be from a small town, go to Central park in NYC, or just about any big city and you'll see the same. Nationality is insignificant. HKers don't like it because HK was already overcrowded and the govt's policy of letting anyone is made it increasingly worse.

7 years 3 weeks ago
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earthizen:

HKers are protesting against 'their' government's open door policy pertaining to china mainlanders. The policy is imposed upon them from PRC the minute they got HK back from the British. Each day, 150 mainlanders (quota) can emigrate to HK. The control lies in the hands of PRC, not HKers. Initially, they didn't think much of it, until years later. Now, 20 years since 1997 have gone by. Do the math., 150 * 365 * 20, over a god damn one million, the actual figure is a little less but close to 1 M.  

 

Most of these are low lives with next to nil education, thus ending up as toilet, street cleaners and security guards. There is nothing wrong in these occupations, but everything is wrong with these venomous creatures. Their next generation, already grown up, are as insidious and venomous (if not more) as their parents. Out of a 7 million population, more than one million are 'people' with terrorists mentality, this being reflected in their verbally abusive behaviors in daily life. You think that is funny?

 

This is why Brexit is a smart survival move, so is Trump's new immigration policy except both countries should add daluren to their list, as should other developed countries. Learn from HKers, they have few choices, these countries have and should they still are that stupid, allowing terrorists (in essence) to continue to infiltrate their homeland, then they deserve the same fate as HKers even more!

7 years 3 weeks ago
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Governor

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Not reasonable.
It would be logical to base requirements off related experience and certs or degrees..and as for oral English teaching: their accent should be taken into account as well.

Of course, using logic and working to keep high quality standards is nearly impossible to find in China/

Zethe:

Whoever downvoted my comment, care to give a valid, logical reason why?
I'm suspecting your reason is either you're petty or you can't read.

7 years 3 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

Dude.... if they don't downvote you, then they can't get paid!

7 years 3 weeks ago
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OMG - I cannot believe how ignorant the OP is!

 

Seriously!

 

Do you think the English that people speak all over the world has ONLY been taught by native speakers from the 'Big 5'???

 

So, to answer your question - hell yes! Non-native speakers of a language have every right to be able to teach a language if they are sufficiently qualified in the language, in teaching, AND experienced in using the language normally in the language environment.

 

Take a look (or listen) to all the Swedes, Danes, Norwegians, Germans, Finns, etc etc etc who speak AWESOME English (and yes, even Russians and Ukrainians, and Greeks, and and and... not to mention, the MANY peoples in Africa (Kenya, Tanzania, Nigeria, Botswana, to name a few) and the Carribean nations.

 

What the Chinese government needs to do is to STOP focussing solely on passport (cos, you know, even those passports do NOT indicate language ability... check out Canadian passports as a perfect example!) and actually base proficiency on ACCREDITED, internationally recognised tests! Put in specifics about 'no module (eg, speaking) less than X score", and voila! Problem solvered!

Shining_brow:

Oh, I should have added...

 

At uni, I did 1 year of Russian (all my teachers were Australian - although one was born in Russia, and another had Russian parents) and 1 year of Spanish (again, Australian teachers - mostly 2nd generation Aussies).

 

The difference between those teachers and Chinese teachers of English is that my teachers (non-native speakers of the language) is that they had at least spent time in their respective language's countries.... the 'pure' non-natives had lived in the country (Russia or South America... perhaps Spain) for a while, to effectively have to use the language.... It's VERY rare to speak to a Chinese teacher of English who has actually spent much time in the UK, Aus, US, Canada, NZ, SA, etc...

7 years 3 weeks ago
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biggj123:

DId you get past the headline of the question? I'm asking if maybe they have other motives instead of the quality of English teachers. Chinese are racist. Maybe they don't want a flood of colored poor people in their country? Maybe they just like white people? I get jobs thrown at me all the time just for being a handsome white Canadian while a black Nigerian would have to basically beg and plead to get a job. 

 

So is it reasonable?? I think its not but there are motives for doing this. I'm asking WHY they do this.

7 years 3 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Do you know the reason why Chinese schools want only Native English teachers?

 

Because, their English level is too low to judge one's English ability. Only Native English passport holder can assure them proper English is taught.

 

 

7 years 3 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

Yeah, Biggs, I did read the whole thing...

 

And basically NOTHING about it suggests (or even clearly IMPLIES) your asking about the motivations behind it... (which, btw, has been discussed numerous times on this forum).

 

Given that I've been given 5 upvotes, it seems that at least a few other people on here agreed with what I wrote (granted, there are 3 downs - but some are the usual wumaos, and I presume one is yours...). It also suggests that at least 5 others (I don't vote for my own posts...) also didn't see the 'motivation' that you say was implied in the question...

 

And, to Chinese, obviously - it IS 'reasonable' (with Chinese logic). Why does it 'make sense' for Chinese business people to aggressively sabotage their own business and interests, just because they might lose face in front of their foreign partners??? Is it 'reasonable' to continue lying and cheating? To them, yes...

7 years 3 weeks ago
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And it'd be nice if everyone had a big house to live in. Learn this word, 'logistics'. How does a country of non English speakers assess English level? Chinese English speakers are also non-native, so they should give up their positions to foreigners? I wouldn't want that for America, another word you should look up , 'economics'.

This is reality, learn to live in it.

Shining_brow:

Here's a couple of other words...

 

IELTS, TOEFL, PTE, Cambridge, Common of European Framework.

 

If you want to teach Putonghua - you need HSK 6 or above. If you want to teach English - you need IELTS 7.5 (with nothing less than 7.5!).

 

Extremely easy solution!

7 years 3 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

Shining: China will never use foreign testing standards as official guidelines domestically (has nothing to do with right or wrong, just reality)

7 years 3 weeks ago
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biggj123:

Did you read my question? Judging from that answer you never.

7 years 3 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

Yeah, Engles, I know....

 

I heard that IDP Australia (one of the 3 partners of the IELTS testing group) was largely owned by a Chinese company....

 

It's also been said around the IELTS rumour mill that the Chinese were planning on replacing IELTS (or, perhaps, taking it over more, and hiring Chinese teachers as examiners... this latter is unlikely to seriously happen, and wouldn't/shouldn't change the standards significantly - because, there'd be SO much international research done on it, that they couldn't get away with it!)

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Shifu

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1.  Reasonable  ---  how many daluren have you come across who can think logically?

 

2.  Money --- how many daluren have you come across who are not obsessed with money?  Meaning, the one who pay is 'right', at least until you have their money in your pocket. 

 

3.  Native whatever language speakers, logically, learn to speak their native language usually by the age of five, including the accent part. Now whether that is a plus depends on what accent you have. As far as English goes, at least in Asia, the 'BBC accent' is widely accepted as the benchmark. (Don't ask me, I don't know why). So, if the parents, i.e. the payers want their kids to speak that accent, and THEY think a native english speaker from UK is a better bet, AND if you want to improve the odds even more, a white guy from UK is even better, what are you going to do about it? 

biggj123:

What am I going to do about it? Nothing. Just asking people opinions on the subject. Thanks.

7 years 3 weeks ago
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earthizen:

Not at all, your question is valid. Changing mass consciousness includes changing beliefs which is virtually impossible with people who can't reason. It so happens that this is the land of the unreasonable, where violence is fused with so called patriotism, and deceit fused with so called survival.  That makes things even more tricky.

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Did you read your question Biggi?

 

Is only allowing native speakers of English to legally teach in china reasonable?

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I see no reason why people outside the "Big 5" shouldn't be allowed to teach English if they're qualified. The only thing that currently "qualifies" TEFL teachers from the Big 5 is their passport, a degree (in ANY subject), 2-years work experience (Dong ANYTHING) & any old TEFL certificate. 

 

My best English teacher in high school in the UK was Indian...Dr. Bhattia. Note the "Dr"....his doctorate was in English! Did he have an Indian accent? Yes! Did it affect how we learnt from him? No! We're used to hearing multitudes of different accents in the UK. 

Englteachted:

The problem is, he's not teaching in China where they're easily thrown off by accents.

7 years 3 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

"The problem is, he's not teaching in China where they're easily thrown off by accents."

 

Or words.....

 

Or our face.........

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