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Q: Scotland will go into the EU
Hej Guys
I've just read that Scotland might get into the EU and will get another referendum for it's independence.
Let me explain Scotland had a higher % of people wanting to stay in the EU, as such with the UK leaving, it was proposed that they again ask for independence and try to keep the UK's EU membership.
So for me i'm all for it, but seeing as how the UK leaving was such a big debate i thought i'd put it out there.
It is a shame really because we all know that the SNP would have otherwise honoured their pledge to not hold another referendum.
Hotwater:
The SNP pledged not to hold another referendum unless there was a big change in political circumstances. With the Brexit vote result difference between England/Wales & Scotland I think they're justified.
Lord_hanson:
So that is why they will hold a referendum. Silly me, I thought it was because next election they wouldn't have the majority in the Scottish parliment.
Shining_brow:
I see it as - the last referendum was to be independent (or not) from a UK that was in the EU.
Brexit was a MAJOR game changer. One which changes the notion of what 'UK' means.
If England decided to re-instate the powers of the monarchy, don't you think that would also be such a game-changer that another call for independence be fair?
Whatever they do,it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out.
It is a shame really because we all know that the SNP would have otherwise honoured their pledge to not hold another referendum.
Hotwater:
The SNP pledged not to hold another referendum unless there was a big change in political circumstances. With the Brexit vote result difference between England/Wales & Scotland I think they're justified.
Lord_hanson:
So that is why they will hold a referendum. Silly me, I thought it was because next election they wouldn't have the majority in the Scottish parliment.
Shining_brow:
I see it as - the last referendum was to be independent (or not) from a UK that was in the EU.
Brexit was a MAJOR game changer. One which changes the notion of what 'UK' means.
If England decided to re-instate the powers of the monarchy, don't you think that would also be such a game-changer that another call for independence be fair?
scotland has not been hit by EU dictates like england has, when they have muslims and eastern european labor taking away their middle class jobs and feeling less safe on the streets, the scots will change their tune. human nature is very predictable, nothing new under the sun.
ScotsAlan:
Scotland probably has Muslim MP's in Westminster. What planet do you live on dude? I say probably, because there are a lot of Muslim sounding names. I say probably, becasuse their religion is not an issue. Their name is not an issue. I say probably because Scottish people do not give a flying fuck what religion you are. You know what Ambi. Scotland is fine. We work things out. We don't want to import hatred. Please stop trying to export it. We are not interested.
Englteachted:
I can agree with you on that, people are stupid and short sided.
nzteacher80:
What cracks me up about you ambi is your utter hypocrisy. You warn other countries about letting immigrants live and work in their countries and yet here you are living and most probably working in another country. Do you think you should be afforded special privileges because of the colour of your skin and the place.you were born? It certainly seems that way.
ambivalentmace:
I don't work in China anymore, I hit the five year rule last summer, so now my work is volunteer, I was retired before I got here, I worked to keep a visa, now that I'm married here, that is not a problem anymore.
If a country is crazy enough to let immigrants take jobs from the locals and let you make a living, then people will do what is in their own self interest, but when locals self interest is usurped by the leadership of the country, the workers, middle class usually correct the problem, by vote or gun, it eventually gets corrected. australia, canada, france, saudi arabia, yemen, sierre leon, guinea, have all let me work for periods of 3 months to 8 years, I'm not sure if i took anybody's job but security is a somewhat fatal occupation.
As a Scot, I struggle to explain the difference between Scottish politics, and that of other countries.
Take the leader of the Scottish conservative party for example. Ruth Davidson. She is a conservative. Of course. She is also in a same sex relationship and is engaged to be married to another woman sometime next year. (I am sure she gets married next year, but I might be wrong)
Does that mean the right wing in Scotland is actually left wing?
No. Of course not. Ruth Davison is a true Tory. She is Tory to the core.
Scottish politics are different. We care about policies . We debate rather than shout down. We agree to disagree, compromise, and work together.
What we do not do is exclude people because they are the wrong colour, the wrong religion, the wrong nationality or the wrong sexual identity.
If anyone finds those values repulsive, please, don't be offended if the Scots call you out as a bigot.
Lord_hanson:
I am sure that a lot of Scottish do hold those values but i doubt they all do. The SNP like to create "folk devils" to manipulate voters.
retiredinchina:
This one made me laugh so hard, I almost dropped my dimple scotch glass, very disconcerting.
Shining_brow:
RiC - do you actually read the things you link? Or, better yet, bother to think when you read them? Or do you just accept what the xenophobic morons who write them have to say??? Seriously... never ever taken a 'critical thinking' class in your life?
The pages and the writes ADMIT to being anti-Muslim and anti-Leftist... and yet somehow (I suspect) you're trying to suggest these are good, reliable, unbiased pieces of information.
Guess what - they're not!
retiredinchina:
So none of these articles have any basis and are purely fictional stories made up, there is no spark, so there is no fire. I have a hard time believing that.
I have heard all my life that the left is unbiased, honest, good intentions, looking out for what is best for me and the right is always wrong and stupid times a thousand. The story is old and it is complete crap.
Shining_brow:
Your attempts to pass these articles off as absolute (unbiased) 'fact' is confusing fire, smoke, and sparks. As well as candle versus bonfire.
It's like the 'sexy advertising' thing. Some see it as destroying your rights to 'free speech' (which the UK doesn't actually have) by pandering to a Muslim minority, of which the Mayor of London is slowing going to bring in Sharia law...
Versus, trying to fight a social problem of body image issues amongst many people (in particular, young girls).
You seem to be the type of person who would have complained when equal opportunity and anti-discrimination laws were brought in for airline hosts, so that men could join the ranks. Or that not all of them are sexy young (pliable??) women.
Whatever the initial spark, the results of that can be interpreted in a number of ways. If you're against it (or the spark's creator), then you'll see it as negative. If you are for it (or it's creator). then you'll see it as a positive. And, you've shown that anything and everything involving a Muslim will be a negative.
The only reason that Brexit took hold in England was because it was a protest vote against Cameron combined with an anti-immigrant vote. If Corbyn had have been more vocal and voters were better informed of the ramifications of a no vote it wouldn't have happened.
Scotland should become independent and join the EU.
Lord_hanson:
That is not true, I am English and I voted out. The reason behind my vote has nothing to do who was in power at the time. It also had nothing to do with British government policy. I voted leave because the EU enacts restrictive policies that are both non negotiable (the Lisbon treaty wasn't unoversally accepted but forced through anyway) and they are not open to reform. The fact that in 2019 they plan to put policy in place that would stop Labour from re-nationalising industries was the last straw.
Scotland voted NO on independence in the past, for a large part because the hassle of re-applying for EU membership would be a lot of trouble, and they didn't want to be a "new" member like a lot of eastern European countries. They would be subject to the same limited participation, travel restrictions and so on that all new members get.
Now, with England's departure from the EU, Scotland has an opportunity to remain in the EU while justifiably deserving faster full (and direct) membership. It's England that has initiated the disruptive action now, not Scotland. It's an opportunity lawmakers in Scotland are quite happy about. Though the old situation was quite preferable of course. Westminster was a buffer between Edinburgh and Brussels. But Scotland would rather face Brussels directly than remain with England and lose its membership.
Lord_hanson:
But they don't have the opportunity to remain in the EU. They have the choice to leave the UK then apply for membership to the EU. Why would that detail change because the UK is leaving the EU?
coineineagh:
Context matters. Scotland would not inconvenience the EU out of its own initiative; it's taking drastic action to stay with the EU. So, receptiveness will be higher.
Lord_hanson:
You obviously haven't been reading the news. The Scottish first minister was told to jog on. It doesn't matter how upset some Scottish voters are, the fact of the matter is that they must join the EU as a new country because that is what they will be. The UK was given special treatment because it was the second largest contributer to the EU's budget. They couldn't afford the UK leaving. Scotland will not be able to contribute significantly towards the EU budget and might even become one of the many that take more than they give. The EU is in no rush to accept them but that won't stop the SNP dishing out false hope to disgruntled voters, getting independence at any cost is what matters to them.
coineineagh:
Yeah sure. Stories change to fit the argument. One claims Scotland has the largest offshore oil fields in Europe, the next claims Scotland has nothing left but a multibillion dollar decommissioning bill for now useless oil rigs. One person says England is dying due to being mooched from within by immigrants, then that same person claims Britain is 2nd largest economic powerhouse. Who knows what's true. But you might find clues to the truth in everyday items: How many British-manufactuted goods do you have in your house? Can you name a major competitive car manufacturer based in Britain (French with factories in the country doesn't count). The only British product in my house is a box of Weetabix. Britain doesn't have a robust economy; it only has oligarchs eager to ship jobs abroad. UK and the US belong together. Scotland OTOH has serious human potential just waiting to be utilized, top-ranked universities, highest amount of historic inventions by population of any country in the world. Famous Scottish military regiments drove Britain's expansion. Highest quality foodstuffs in the world; Scottish grains, salmon, meat and food products are in high demand by top restaurants worldwide. Breakthroughs in law, science, society, you name it. Read about Scotland on wikipedia if you think I'm lying. Just because Westminster took all the cheddar and sent back a few slices in subsidies, does not imply Scotland is hopeless. You let your arrogance blind you, Englishman. You may be surprised how little Scotland will miss you headless chickens.
coineineagh:
Scotland was told by the EU to jog on, huh? http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/uk-news/2016/06/30/eu-transitional-holding-pen-talks-for-scotland-under-way-former-ec-adviser/ http://m.heraldscotland.com/politics/14591378.EU__transitional_holding_pen__talks_for_Scotland_have_been_held__MSPs_told/ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-3667954/EU-transitional-holding-pen-talks-Scotland-way--former-EC-adviser.html
