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Q: Is there a dumber human being?
Trump does the wrong thing when the right thing is so obvious!!!!!!!Pissing off allies is not the way to address the trade gap with China
6 years 7 weeks ago in Transport & Travel - China
I suspect he wants the tarrif to pay for his tax cuts. What was it? 0.6 cents on a can of soup. Its the American taxpayer who will pay, not China.
I also noticed there was no comparative price. That is, will the tax make other steel more expensive than American steel? If Canadian steel is 35% cheaper than American steel, US Companies will still buy Canadian, but the American consumer will have to pay more.
And lets not even get into the actual physics of steel production. From memory, Sweeden does plate and tool steel, UK does long steel, Germany does coil. Oz does the ore and ships to China. A single country does not have the capacity to make all the metal types it needs. That is why we have countries that export as much as they import. Because it is different product.
Steel plants cost billions. You cant run it for 6 months in a year to make plate for warships, then convert it to make rail lines. They are totally different plants. They need to run 24 7 to make money.
Englteachted:
You see what happens when you simply state the obvious instead of trying to act smarter than everyone else. Great points
ScotsAlan:
I used to work in the steel industry Engteach. Late 80s/ early 90. Its where I served my time in the drawing office. We made refractories. I remember one time, an American refractory company closed down, and the crowd I worked for bought up all their tooling. It arrived packed in wooden crates, padded with sawdust, and in almost every crate there was a good solid steak fed turd. They shit in the boxes before shipping. This particular company went bust because they rejected new technology. Steel makers wanted new technology that allowed them to cast thinner slabs so they could reduce their mill costs. Italy led the way with that. The USA were left behind. As a wee add, the tooling we bought from the USA was not only covered in shit, it was shit. We scrapped it.
Englteachted:
America needs to address domestic issues when it comes to trade also.
icnif77:
Some 'addressing':
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-07/these-15-states-will-be-hit-hardest-trumps-new-tariffs
Well,, I think he knew what he was doing. Tariffs, Trade war/s or not, he certainly got things revved up and notice being taken. His fundamental point I agree with. A nation is just not fundamentally secure if it lacks the home-grown ability/capacity to manufacture iron, steel, and aluminum.
Get our steel mills modernised and up 'n running. Quit being dependant on cheap imported steel. Get all manufacturers, markets back on an even footing. That's worth pissing off PRC imo.
Englteachted:
Steel and Aluminum production in the US is expensive because of domestic issues, like healthcare and education costs (employer pays employees expenses).
When you make a move like this that hurts your allies, not China. They respond in kind and you lose Allies. So whatever jobs you gain in steel, you lose in manufacturing of finished goods.
As I stated before, the problem with trade is China, in terms of unfair trade deals and outright cheating. This steel move ignores China completely. Goods made in China sell in the US at a 2% tariff, US to China, 22%. So easy to fix. But he is tearing down the house to fix a flat tire on his car.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/26510/stable-genius-trump-jacks-tariffs-solar-panels-ryan-saavedra
I wonder if the China company would be building a factory in America without a threat of a 30 percent tariff that falls to 15 percent in the 4th year. Obama gave millions for green energy that failed and now somebody actually wants them to compete and give them a chance without a handout and everybody is saying no. what a bunch of hypocrites.
ambivalentmace:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/trump-tariff-will-protect-jobs-jupiter-aluminum-executive-says
ambivalentmace:
https://hotair.com/archives/2018/03/05/trump-canada-mexico-sign-fair-nafta-ill-wave-tariffs/
A president bluffing to get Mexico and Canada to sign a new NAFTA agreement. Only a cunning New York businessman would play a dirty trick like that, not an establishment politician, must be a fake news story.
Englteachted:
Wasn't NAFTA already a fair deal (everyone charges the same Tariffs)?
ambivalentmace:
https://www.thebalance.com/nafta-pros-and-cons-3970481 Hard to say, but the article says America lost 500 to 750 thousand jobs and Mexican farmers bot butt fucked without a kiss.
ambivalentmace:
https://www.sott.net/article/283800-20-reasons-why-NAFTA-is-destroying-the-economy
Reason number 7 is interesting
This is the real story but its in a far right publication, so nobody will source it or talk about it.
CHINA DOES NOT TAKE BACK ITS DEPORTEES, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS AND TRUMP SAID THEY WILL OR TARIFFS.
When you talk the talk, you have to walk the walk.
ambivalentmace:
https://iotwreport.com/nations-refusing-to-take-back-citizens-ordered-deported-from-canada/
It seems Canada has the same problem, countries refusing to take their trash on 2 legs back.
ambivalentmace:
https://conservativedailypost.com/china-named-as-president-trump-doubles-down-on-sanctions-promise/
ambivalentmace:
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6831820
40 thousand illegal Chinese immigrants not taken back as of the year 2007 and climbing every year.
ambivalentmace:
thousands of illegals in Britain will not be taken back by China. what a shame, must be fake news.
ambivalentmace:
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article131227599.html
if their country does not take them, the jails in America are overcrowded and they release them and they commit more crimes. OH NO, more fake news. Shame on the Miami Paper for picking on poor loving immigrants, how racists of the Cubans to say such bad things about the great immigrants of the world. Lets sing "we are the world" and let them all in here.
ambivalentmace:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-06/u-s-said-to-consider-broad-curbs-on-chinese-imports-takeovers Its about the immigrants because the tariffs are going to be on many things other than steel and solar. Its a business decision, if we have a 100,000 deportees, 40,000 in 2007, to China, How much is this costing us for the one's illegally paying no taxes, living on welfare, being fed in a prison, or doing work below standard wages that another legal American could be making. It's not about trade, it's the business of running the American government for the greater good of Americans and its about damn time. China has the nerve to want criminals for corruption to be extraditing back from western countries but you want take back your illegal citizens, anybody see something wrong about this.
China sells very little steel and aluminium to the US. As a raw material.
But Trump has a point, not that he can see it, in that Chinese metal industry is run by the state. So it possibly subsidised. Will the sanctions only be on raw material or product. If it is product, he will need massive numbers of import agents to work out the tarrifs. So much for small government.
I agree with him that metal production is important for the security of a country.
But he does not understand the supply chain. Canadian aluminium is cheaper because of hydro elecrricity. Chinese steel is cheaper because of over capacity and an oversupply of lignite coal that can be burnt here but not in the US. Thats the stuff that makes us cough.
Most Chinese consumer products are made here in factories funded by wall street and the big retailers. All China has to do to hit back is increase minimum wage. I live next to a big Amway plant. I dont think Betsey Devos would be happy if minimum wage went up 20%. The plant is here. Not there. It would take a year to move the factory from here to there, if China allowed it to move of course.
If Trump wants to protect the US metal industry, he should nationalise it, and subsidise it. Compete with China on equal terms. Then American steel plants can sell cheap steel to the foreign car plants in America.
Or, of course, China could just shut down the American car plants here that exist under free market conditions.
Or put an export tax on iphones.
I get Trumps sentiment... but he is dumb as fuck.
ambivalentmace:
why are the lackeys and blokes doing the same thing, I thought they hate Trump and don't want him to even visit.
I suspect he wants the tarrif to pay for his tax cuts. What was it? 0.6 cents on a can of soup. Its the American taxpayer who will pay, not China.
I also noticed there was no comparative price. That is, will the tax make other steel more expensive than American steel? If Canadian steel is 35% cheaper than American steel, US Companies will still buy Canadian, but the American consumer will have to pay more.
And lets not even get into the actual physics of steel production. From memory, Sweeden does plate and tool steel, UK does long steel, Germany does coil. Oz does the ore and ships to China. A single country does not have the capacity to make all the metal types it needs. That is why we have countries that export as much as they import. Because it is different product.
Steel plants cost billions. You cant run it for 6 months in a year to make plate for warships, then convert it to make rail lines. They are totally different plants. They need to run 24 7 to make money.
Englteachted:
You see what happens when you simply state the obvious instead of trying to act smarter than everyone else. Great points
ScotsAlan:
I used to work in the steel industry Engteach. Late 80s/ early 90. Its where I served my time in the drawing office. We made refractories. I remember one time, an American refractory company closed down, and the crowd I worked for bought up all their tooling. It arrived packed in wooden crates, padded with sawdust, and in almost every crate there was a good solid steak fed turd. They shit in the boxes before shipping. This particular company went bust because they rejected new technology. Steel makers wanted new technology that allowed them to cast thinner slabs so they could reduce their mill costs. Italy led the way with that. The USA were left behind. As a wee add, the tooling we bought from the USA was not only covered in shit, it was shit. We scrapped it.
Englteachted:
America needs to address domestic issues when it comes to trade also.
icnif77:
Some 'addressing':
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-07/these-15-states-will-be-hit-hardest-trumps-new-tariffs
Yeah, but PRC produces sth like 49% of the world's steel. I am not sure about the details, but if President Trump can take steps to revitalizing US steel industry I would deem that a good thing.
*yeah, I know the Devil is in the details...
Stiggs:
I was reading somewhere a couple of days ago...one of those devil's details might be Europe, Canada and China retaliating with tariffs of their own.
This is something I know nothing about but it doesn't sound good for the U.S to me.
Englteachted:
You don't target China by pissing off your Allies, you work with your Allies to target China. Because China's been fattening up on loopsided deals and still cheating the system.
Trump may actually be on to something. Because of something called Trans-shipping (shipping through other countries) . 50% of the steel on the market comes from China.
ScotsAlan:
Thats true. The number might not be right. But Chinese steel does make it to the US. It might be Chinese steel bought and refined by other nations. Thats free trade. Its a way for China to get around the WTO rules about Government subsidy. I bet OZ wont complain to the WTO. China buys its ore from OZ. Remember the guys who China jailed for price fixing OZ ore?
I see on the news tonight, an American steel company is opening up a mothballed steel plant. 500 jobs coming back. Good news..really good news.
I am mixed about this. I am not totally against protectionism.
Here is a thing to consider. The company I work for buys press tools from an American company. This company is amongst the best in the world. We buy them from the US and use them in the UK. But the tools are made from steel from Sweden. Because, for toolmaking,.its the best in the world.
If the US company puts it prices up, it might be more cost effective for us to buy cheaper but inferior tools in China, and move UK production here.
I hope that does not happen.
Its too complex for me to work out. Those 500 reinstated jobs in that steel plant might cost thousands more. Trump should have thought about this, and he should have talked to all involved, not just the steel makers.
The real scam here is misdirection, this has more to do with immigration, a few factory jobs is not going change the numbers that much.
So you change the unemployment numbers during the black messiah reign in America by cutting the number of jobs available for placement to skew the numbers to make the unemployment numbers look better. Now the other party gets to use the new formula to make them look good as well.
How do you fool the middle class into thinking things are better, give lip service to make america great again, try tax cuts, tariffs, knowing it want work, but, deport the cheap labor by the thousands out of the country to change the labor supply side of the equation to make the numbers look good to fool people. Wages go up with less workers available but unless it becomes a permanent solution, it's just temporary good times. Trump knows the left want say anything because then they are admitting that flooding the country with immigrants lowers wages and destroys the middle class. then he can use it against them and they can't do it again in 8 years. So America gets fooled into believing were great again, when all we did was kick out enough people to make it better for everybody else that remains but want honestly say that is what we are doing.
what happens when the left get power on a swing back that always comes, let them all back in and the numbers crash again. If China takes the 100 thousand deportees back, that 100 thousand people not on the cheap labor side of the equation anymore and the savings can allow him to gradually lower the tariffs.
ambivalentmace:
you don't remember the speech in Germany with the help of 2 great German bands for a free concert and standing between 2 fake Greek columns like a God, promising the change you have been waiting for and press coverage saying he would stop global warming and lower sea levels.
The left media made him a God, I'm just giving them the benefit of the doubt, Isn't the left supposed to brainwash me into believing this garbage. what wrong with letting them think they succeed so they can continue to make fools of themselves.
My beef with Hussein is personal and slightly business, but the people who never said anything for fear of being called a racist and did not hold him accountable are never, never going to be forgiven by me. I actually look forward to meeting hussein in hell and kicking his ass for a few years of eternity, but the guy who invented the cell phone is on the top of my list.
I wonder how the stocks are reacting to this
icnif77:
'Down slope' is the next wave in cards by market chart indicators:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-07/trump-trade-wars-are-perfect-smokescreen-market-crash
I say this only IF Trump’s plan was to benefit establishment globalists by giving them perfect cover for their continued demolition of the market bubbles that they have engineered since the crash of 2008.
If this was not his plan, then I am a bit bewildered by what he hopes to accomplish. It is certainly not the end of trade deficits and the return of American industry. But let’s explore the situation for a moment...
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-07/trump-sign-tariffs-noon-tomrrow-mexico-canada-may-be-exempt-due-national-security
Englteachted:
Trump's buddy pulled 31 million out of Steel right before Trump announced his Tariffs
ambivalentmace:
yes, I have a little IEP in my portfolio, not so good in 2017 but not bad this year.
I would hate to be a news editor at the monent...
'TRUMP ANNOUNCES TRADE TARRIFS'
'PORN STAR SUES TRUMP'
Decisions... decisions...
ambivalentmace:
Yes, no more stainless steel vibrators, you have to use plastic since your metrosexual wuss boyfriend is stuck in the friend zone. I suppose being a well paid feminists, left wing journalists is a lonely life with the "me too" movement segregating company parties and bars, hell, even the comic con conventions said no straight white males allowed this year. I can't wait till the porn industry has to use blow up dolls to avoid sexual harassment in the work place.
Five minutes later, fatty kim wants to meet for denuclearization talks. Connection maybe?
ambivalentmace:
The so called experts have said the North Korean economy has contracted 70 percent, it that is true, he may have an offering plate in his hand and trying to start a church.
