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Q: Very stressed over the high costs of getting married to my Chinese girlfriend. Please help?
A Little Background
I am a United States Citizen. My girlfriend is Chinese. We met last year in the United States while taking a class together in University. At the time my girlfriend was on a F-1 student visa, which was set to expire soon after the time of her graduation in December. Instead of rushing into marriage just to keep her in the United States I decided it might be best to come back with her to China to work for a year as an English teacher then go down the marriage route.
Problems
Reading into the K-1 Visa requirements for the sponsor of the non-citizen, I noticed that the sponsor is required to show proof of income, or bank statements, showing that he/she makes over 150% of the United States poverty line. Over 150% of the United States poverty line for a household of two, My girlfriend and I, is about $25,000. Reasonable enough considering the number of Americans under the poverty line (why add another, right?), but in my situation this makes things very difficult. Back in the states right out of college, June 2014, I was easily able to secure employment making $35,000 annually, but as a FT in China I barely make $20,000 annually.
Concerning Questions
My Chinese girlfriend isn't rich, and in Chinese culture after the women starts living with the man, which we do, the man is expected to provide in these types of situations. The costs of applying for a K-1 Visa can be quite expensive when you add up the application costs and traveling expenses (interview). Factor in the costs of plane tickets, green card, and marriage after the Visa is approved, likely some 10 months later, it becomes extremely stressful!
My back account is already nil after blowing it on two plane tickets to the China, and passport and visa fees. My monthly expenses are $500 a month for student loans, and a car payment (yeah, I know). The most I can save per month on my salary after the expenses is only about $500 a month, oh more by the way than what I could save with my previous job in the United States, but that's another discussion.
When, and if, we both come back to the United States we will need to have set aside roughly three months of living expenses, which is about $5000. This will, hopefully, give us enough time to both find stable employment.
This sucks. What are some realistic options for my situation?
You're poor and you've known her for less than two years and you're thinking of getting married?
I would think again, very, very, very carefully.
"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread" and all that.
morget:
Comparatively speaking to the rest of the world I wouldn't say I am poor. Can I afford it yes, but is it worth the costs? That's the question.
Is it only old rich lonely men that marry Chinese women? Is my case really that uncommon? There's thousands of Chinese women studying abroad in America I don't think I am the first to fall into this situation.
Marry and Stay in China?
Find a better job, accept NOTHING LESS THAN 13000 rmb per month, problem solved (13000*12=156,000 rmb. 156000/6.2=25,161$ annual salary). Do this for 2 years and you are fine.
it is 150%? When did they change it? For a LONG time it was 125% (which, depending on which state you live in, can be as low as 18000)
morget:
Why would I stay in China? There is very little upward mobility based on my qualifications ( I graduated with a political science degree and have very limited sales experience) and Chinese language abilities. My girlfriend, well she is Chinese and she studied Asian studies.
Staying in China for two years could work, but it puts a huge hole of unrelated experience on my resume, unless I plan on being a teacher when I go back to American, in which I would have to go back to school.
I don't think it can just over-simply the scenario.
Spiderboenz:
I am sorry that you have a relatively useless degree/skill set, but you asked for options, and that's what they are.
morget:
Haha. They're not useless, as I mentioned earlier I was easily able to obtain a yearly base salary of $35,000 with future commission opportunities. Just useless in China. The point I was making was that staying in China for years might be a wasted opportunity when I could be building my career in America. I was just seeing if others have had similar situations to see what they did.
Lord_hanson:
It sounds like you should move back to the USA and get a good job. If you truely love each other then your relationship can survive being long distance for a while.
Robk:
I am going to have to go with Spider on this one.
It makes more sense to just move to China for a bit and save up. The U.S. is VERY unkind to people that starting out in their career but very rewarding to those in their prime.
Live in China for 3-5 years and build up your skills, your bank account and possibly your love? Why not? See it is lasts before you go through all that trouble.
morget:
Robk, I am not exactly sure how I would go about building up my skills in China for a job back in the United States. I would be very interested in learning how I could that.
Also, the sponsor does not HAVE to be you, it can be a family member.
Also, the sponsor does not HAVE to be you, it can be a family member.
also you have not factored in the cost of getting married.
if her family is not rich, they will probably expect a substantial 'gift' from you in terms of cash as they will be all about 'face'
as the foreign guy, you will be expected more or less to foot the bill for an OTT wedding: there does not seem to be a 'small private' wedding option in China as you will have to pay for everyone and their distant relation.
Any of the guys on this forum will tell you the costs you will be expected to cover - essentially you will be 'buying' your wife.
good luck, by all means, but do your research on the cultural expectations of marriage so you are not shocked when backed into a corner.
morget:
Haha. That won't happen. That's a very clear line in the sand.
Shining_brow:
Sorrel - you forgot to mention that the boss needs to come - and the rest of the department, and the bosses family... and the cousins, and.... :p
Morget - you are aware (or, more obviously not) that the phrase 'line in the sand' means that it very quickly gets washed away...! Ie, in this case, yes, you WILL be having that extremely expensive (and depressing) wedding :)
sorrel:
@ morget
your gf's family will have 'invested' a lot of money for her overseas education and will be looking for a return on this asap.
you may find she sides more with the family 'because you don't understand Chinese culture', a phrase trotted out regularly to excuse illogical behaviour.
in China, you are on her home ground.
I by no means discourage marriage, but to do so unprepared especially in a cross-cultural situation is naive.
@Shining_brow
mea culpa!
I forgot the boss - i have lost face 
dongbeiren:
Sorrel is right, even if you say it's not an option, the family will be expecting a face giving wedding and will probably be bitter if you don't buy her a house and a car even if they don't show it.
morget:
That's very stereotypical and negative. I control the purse strings in our relationship. We've got in several arguments of spending money on clothing where I have firmly stood my ground. I am not worried in one bit about her parents' "face" at a wedding.
I am a selfish tight wad and spend less money on my girlfriend than most boyfriends spend on their western girlfriends. If this comes off too harsh I'm sorry, but I am not a bitch.
dongbeiren:
Morget, you're right that some of what we say comes off as stereotypical but with Chinese, stereotypes are typically accurate due to the overwhelming pressure to conform. Trust me, the closer you get to marriage, the more financial demands of both you AND your family will be made. Maybe your situation is different from most but it's hard to believe that she and her family won't demand face and financial security in the form of material possessions as a condition of marriage. A lot of guys who make 3000 a month are still expected to provide a house, a car and a nice wedding. They can only afford this by receiving financial assistance from family. Most American families are not willing to support adult children the way Chinese expect, this can lead to conflicts whereby she and or her family see you and your family as stingy or poor. If your case is an exception, good for you but keep your eyes open. Chinese families will care more about your wallet than your love.
You're poor and you've known her for less than two years and you're thinking of getting married?
I would think again, very, very, very carefully.
"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread" and all that.
morget:
Comparatively speaking to the rest of the world I wouldn't say I am poor. Can I afford it yes, but is it worth the costs? That's the question.
Is it only old rich lonely men that marry Chinese women? Is my case really that uncommon? There's thousands of Chinese women studying abroad in America I don't think I am the first to fall into this situation.
Ok - logically, you have the following options:
1) don't get married (to this girl)
2) don't get married now
3) get married and stay in China
4) get married and move to the US
5) get married and move to some other country.
6) get married, she stays here, you go back home. (or other variants, where you and she are separated for financial reasons)
Obviously, some choices are seen as better than others.
Honestly, I'd go with 2, 3, 5 or 6!
Option 2 includes you heading back to the states, getting your cushy $35000 job for a couple of years, then marrying, seems far smarter to me! (although, actually, $35000 isn't a lot of money, and you can easily make more than that here in China - with the right skill set and qualifications!)
Option 4 becomes viable if she's able to get a job in the US - or becomes a student on a student visa!!
Going to a different country, getting experience etc, - sort of delays the problem... though it may help increase your finances (if you can find the job).
morget:
There's no way I can make that much, or more, in China with my qualifications. Not going to happen. Outside of business, the only profitable positions with upward mobility for expats in China exist in STEM professions.
If you have a degree in humanities, fresh out of college, the only opportunities will be in teaching.
There are possibilities in import/exporting, but lacking the ability to communicate in Chinese and a network back in the U.S. I would be outclassed.
morget:
There's no way I can make that much, or more, in China with my qualifications. Not going to happen. Outside of business, the only profitable positions with upward mobility for expats in China exist in STEM professions.
If you have a degree in humanities, fresh out of college, the only opportunities will be in teaching.
There are possibilities in import/exporting, but lacking the ability to communicate in Chinese and a network back in the U.S. I would be outclassed.
I wouldn't marry someone after one year my man!
Are you a virgin?
Marrying Chinese women can be very expensive in general. To be honest, it sounds like the costs you're discussing are far less than the costs of marrying a traditional Chinese girl and staying in China so going back to America is the cheaper route. Everyone has different requirements but in my province the average cost of marriage was calculated at around 1 million rmb when considering everything. You have to follow your heart but you're going to face a lot of difficulties being broke with debts to pay off and a Chinese wife who may or may not be employable in the US. You might want to consider staying in China for a year and saving money before giving it a go. That could at least cover your 5,000 in living expenses for the first few months. Or seek financial help from family to defray some of the initial expenses. There's no easy answer I'm afraid. Seeing as she's Chinese, she will probably expect a lot more spending from you on bags, medical bills, clothes and travel. Not every girl is the same of course but it's pretty typical of women here to have high financial demands from their husbands. And her whole extended family will wonder why you don't buy her a house and a car.
dom87:
why the heck would anyone pay 1mio rmb to marry?
srsly I am married to a chinese and we paid like 30000 RMB - we married in germany and in china.
30000 rmb after the money is reimbused by cash presents though
dongbeiren:
Yea, it's pretty insane I agree. I'd say the breakdown would be something like this in my city - 600,000-700,000 rmb for a smallish new apartment, another 100,000+ to decorate it, 150,000 for an average new car, 100,000 for a face giving wedding, maybe another 30,000 on jewelry and stuff. So a million sounds about right considering that most Chinese girls wouldn't marry anyone without something close to the above.
Strawberry66:
I agree it is pretty typical here of women here to have high financial demands from their husbands. I saw lots of women shopping luxury with their husband's cards. Sorry,I never envied them. Those women are unless women who even lack of working ability to get good paid if their husbands do not support them. Losers!
Strawberry66:
My old boss arranged her daughter to marry a second rich man she doesn't love. I asked her why she not divorce.She told me she would only probally make 3000rmb if she divorced. I told her to live on 3000rmb then. She told she can not live a poor life. Woman likes her is in vain.
Move to China and save for a while. Get your stuff in order and take some time to see if she is worth it.... Trust me... marriage can be both the toughest and most rewarding thing you do (if you do it right)... next to have a child. But I am not at that step yet.
I suggest you do your year in China first, then decide what to do.
Unfortunately, a period of time apart is inevitible. She will have to stay here while you get established in the States.
If you spend a year here with your GF (and her family), you will both probably be better prepared to be seperated for a while. Its normal to be seperated. Before I moved here I would sometimes only see my wife once a year. This is normal in China. Also, getting married after your year will work out better baby wise....because the family will expect a baby in the first year of marriage....in fact, the family prefer if the baby arrives 3 months after your marraige 
The baby part tends to be non-negotiable in China. Your new wife will be under massive pressure to produce, then all of a sudden you will find yourself supporting a mother in law too.
Honestly dude, do your year before you get hitched. There is a lot more to Chinese women than meet the eye. Much better to base your relationship upon time spent in her native country.
Good luck fella
dongbeiren:
Agreed that living with her in China for a year would be a good idea - build up those savings for a financial cushion and spend some more time with her before getting married. A year in China won't harm your job prospects.
ScotsAlan:
I forgot to mention, that you dont just marry the girl in China, you marry the family. Spending time here will let the OP see just how strong this filial piety is. It's stronger than any other invisible force in the universe :-) The wedding itself can be cheap. Our wedding for example was paid from the huangbao. No problem there. But go to the states together then the pressure builds to take the mum there to visit. I think its fair to say, that for a Chinese wife, her relationship with her mum is of equal or more importance than her relationship with her husband.
dongbeiren:
The family aspect is huge - if one of her relatives gets sick, the OP will be expected to contribute towards the cost of medical care. Same if one of her relatives hits tough times financially. Then there could be the unwelcome visits from the mother in law. It is very important to understand what the relationship with the family will be like and what the financial and personal space expectations will be.
ScotsAlan:
The family must have a fair bit of money to be able to send their daughter to the US to study. With that in mind it is a bit worrying that the op mentioned that he is expected to cover all costs. To me, that would be an alarm bell. But yeah, when the wife's gran is in hospital we all have to pay up. Its done in a fair way though. Its the same when some distant cousin goes off to study, we are all expected to chip something into the hat.
morget:
It's not so much that I am expected to cover those costs, but that my girlfriend is only making 3,000rmb a month right now and can't provide. Technically, I could ask her parents for help, but, as the Chinese say, I would losing guanxi in the process.
Thanks for the advice, and I think you might be right about having some time apart. We'll see what happens.
ScotsAlan:
I never said you should have time apart. I said you should have time together. I just suggested you do it in China. Then when the time comes, bite the bullet and be prepared to be apart while you get established.
Reading between the lines. I suspect you are both young. The legal age to get married is 22 for a male in China, 20 for the woman. But if she marries a foreigner, she has to be 22..
It's really simple. If you want to be together you will be. No matter what problems crop up. It's a matter of deciding what you want. A career or a life partner. The two don't always mesh together perfectly.
Is it worth the effort ? Hell yes. Of course it is. But only you and your girl know if it is worth the effort for the both of you. We can only offer practical advice.
Do a year in China together. If all is ok, then get wed and be happy ever after. Stand tall together and conquer the world. Don't fold at the first little problem.
Eorthisio:
Agree, many Chinese people also go to work in other cities and see their wife/husband once a year when they both go back to their hometown.
There's some very good advice in the above posts from people who know about living and marrying in China.
I say do your year or two in China. You really do need to know what you're getting into here. You won't just be marrying a Chinese girl, you'll be marrying into a completely different culture and everything that goes with it, a lot of which you won't have really seen yet as she has been living in your country.
Oh... and sell the car. You can get another car at anytime. But the same cant be said about good women
morget:
That's a tough decision to make, because I know how much money I've thrown down the drain - I bought it for $12,000 and I'd be lucky to sell it for $7,000, with $11,000 still left to pay on the loan. Oh, and I am pretty sure there's a clause in the contract I signed with the bank that says if I pay my loan off early I will be penalized.
I might be better to keep the car, besides, on the bright side, while I am in China I am not adding any miles to the car.
ScotsAlan:
Dude, what do you want? Your gf or your car. That $7000 would be better in your bank than parked outside in the street.
My impression is that you're not fair dinkum.
Perhaps you did meet someone while you were studying in the US and, like you, she's Chinese.
If I'm barking up the wrong tree here, well, duibuqi, no offense.
In which case my advice is to wait and see how you both get on for a bit longer.
You don't always have to 'marry' the family as well. I didn't.
And you don't always have to have a ridiculous Chinese wedding party involving everybody her parents have ever met, and then buy a house and a car. I didn't.
Well, I did buy a car....a 2nd hand one.
So; to sum up.......If you're trolling, why are you and what's the point? And if you're fair dinkum, don't think marriage until a bit/lot further down the track.
Best advice, in either case, is just relax and crack a tinny or three.
ScotsAlan:
Both I suspect. The tin foil hat often comes out after a few tinnys 
morget:
I wish I were trolling! Marriage would be along the lines of so that we can stay together and I can go back to the United States.
ScotsAlan:
It's not a big problem Morget.
You and your girl just need to do a plan.
First up, are you qualified to get a Z visa to work in China? Probably, but if not then it's not a deal breaker. You can get around that..
You need money, no problem, sell your car, get a job, spend little and save.
You could provide more info here. What city are you in, what city is your GF in, and where is your GF's houkou. Of course, I assume you and your girl are in the same city, but one should never assume in China.
What age are you both? Very important.
i think you do get the occasional chinese family whose requirements aren t too incompatible. a few will try and take you to the cleaners in order for you to marry their daughter. my friend was in the latter category. His mother in law told him " you are getting of lightly, if you were chinese I would try to get everything possible.
i do sympathize. you ve fallen in love with a chinese girl and you want for both of you to live in the states. however unless teaching is your gig, the longer you spend here, the less employable you will be back home. if you had a job at 35000 dollars you should go home without your gf. money gives you options. she could visit on a tourist visa then aim for marriage after.
morget:
Thanks for the reply. I hear you and logically speaking that would be the smartest thing I could do. However, I don't know if I could live with the guilt of leaving her behind. Plus, she's 26 years old now. If she were more career focused I could see this working, but she's not, she's more focused on having a family.
dokken:
if you ve been going out for only one year all this seems a bit crazy fast. if i even brought up mariage with my gf, not that id want to. she would run for the hills. we ve been going out longer than you have. i don't know any chinese girls, despite the stereotype, who would get married purely in order to get a passport. she ll want a proper chinese wedding and you sound like you don't have two pennies to rub together.
Many good comments....but I would like to add......its so cheap to live in china....I have a few apartments in china in different cities that I rent because it is so cheap. Compared to the states........it's less than one apartment. soooooooooo If you plan to live in the states to make or save money, it won't be better, unlessssss you buy a house and get appreciation on that house through time...but then there is Insurance, Taxes, Association fee (usually) down payment, monthly payments, repairs, furniture to buy etc..
Also if you teach in china they give free place to rent or money usually. Being married and living in different countries or even cities doesnt make a bit of sense. And if your a male and under 25 why marry? if you live to be 90 that means you would be married 65 years, and only single for 7 years (considering at 18 you begin being single) . Why would you do that.....................
Also, marriages fail, so that is a consideration that can be looked at on both sides of the fence....one side...no big deal....the other side...if you have children it's a big deal.
Good luck
way too much to read it all, but |I do have a belief with relationships and marriage.
You must be together ,,. long distance relationships suck..
money is not everything
love is a special thing
royceH:
I feel you man. Long distance relationships are for the birds...often they aren't real....don't even try to do that. Unless you have no choice.
Disclaimer: I am not down on you for asking this question of feeling this way
From your OP it appears that you aren't really in a good position to be married at this time. The advice to come to China for a while and see how it works out is sensible. It is easy to stash away enough for her dowry in a relatively short amount of time. You may find that marrying into a Chinese family is too complicated or it may be no big deal as it was for me.
Strawberry66:
Agree. You may seek a teaching job around 15K($2419) to 20K($3225) per month if you have bachelor or Master degree and teach English in first tier city like Shanghai or BeiJing. You could easily save a lot because the living costes are relatively much lower back to the States. And you can have more time to get to know your Chinese girlfriend and her family much better before you make your serious marriage desicion.Right now,I feel you are asking trouble if you marry in your poor situation. I guess you are a yong man in your 20S,do not rush to get married and then have to worry what you gonna eat tomorrow.You can come to teach China if you do not want to lose your girlfriend.
But better you just stay in the States and work hard to get more experiences for seeking a better paid job or got promoted rather tahn wasting time to teach English in China. What benifits can bring you back to States for teaching English in China? Are you going to show the companies your teaching experiences in the interviews. DO NOT COME TO TEACH ENGLISH IF POSSIBLE.
Another good option to go is you apply a job with the same area you are working for or related to your major and you can come to work in China for a while and get to know your gf. After you are more skilled and you think she is right for you then marry her.Find a better job back to the States and bring her with you.
I have been following this thread so now I will chime in....everyone says to wait well more than one year.. Which makes good sense... But in China with dating foreigners it seems to move very fast and I have seen this far more than not. Plus the girl pushes for it quickly and want to be married or engaged come spring festival.
The other side of the coin is foreigners want to marry quickly because of Visa and they can't get around china easily without a chinese helping them....And even more true when they don't have money or job prospects abroad..
DrMonkey:
You know that you can't work on a spouse visa, right ? Getting married to have the right to stay in China is not really a blessing, you don't have the right to work...
ScotsAlan:
This myth about no jobs abroad is getting me tired. There are loads of jobs in my home country, and they pay more than here. Lots more. Not every foreigner is in China because they cant get a job at home. Its foreigners themselves that started this myth with their blogs. I wish some bloggers would look at themselves and ask why they cant get a job at home and fix that, rather than come here to teach, then complain there are no jobs there.
kikikillercat:
That's why I wrote 'and even more true' meaning those who marry quickly..tend not to have job opps elsewhere.
Shining_brow:
I know I'm necro-ing a little here Scots, but...
While it's true that there are many jobs back home, and many fairly well paying, the fact is that the cost of living is so much lower here, so that ultimately you can save a lot more. As I keep saying, i get to save about 80% of my income here (well, I was ... not so good now :( ).
In order to do that back home, or in most other developed countries, I'd need to have an income in excess of $300,000/year. Granted, I live in a cheaper (but, IMHO, nicer area), and I'm not incredibly social - but that just makes the % higher. Even changing those things, I'd still be saving over 50% of a monthly income.
I agree Shining Brow - you are asking for trouble son.
Do not get married now. Wait for a few more years after your finance got improved if you are young. When you married,there might be more costes when the babies come. And you just met her last year,certainly it is not long enough to talk about marriage.
Do not get married now. Wait for a few more years after your finance got improved if you are young. When you married,there might be more costes when the babies come. And you just met her last year,certainly it is not long enough to talk about marriage.
