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Q: Why is it acceptable to blame other people in China?

As my previous question was harmonised, I'll be more generic and stay within the T&Cs.

 

I have noticed that "the blame game" occurs quite a lot here in China. Usually the person responsible will blame others for the mistake. I have noticed this mentality starts with small children and continues up the corporate ladder.

 

Is it just me or have you noticed this?

 

What do think of someone who reports others? Someone who reports others with a goal oriented agenda to recreate the wheel in their own image and remove a percieved obstacle?

 

Where I come from this is the worst possible thing you could do and you will be labled a dog, dingo, grass, snitch or something deservedly worse. Remember the hong wei bing, nazi collaborators, that annoying ginger goody two shoes at primary school?

7 years 44 weeks ago in  Health & Safety - China

 
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It is not just you. This trait definitely exists amongst Chinese nationals. I just put it down to a cultural nuance (the yangist mentality as has been mentioned on this forum).

 

Lazy and inept students blame teachers for examination failure, bosses blame (and sack) employees when covering up their own incompetence, shop owners blame customers for faulty goods, the government blames anyone and everyone but themselves when domestic policies cause mayhem, resentment and trouble.

 

Yes, it is irritating but it is just another one of those little joys of being in China. After a while, you just live with it or move on.

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I'm going to answer you from the other side of the shoe. What were you at school? The gobby bully who picked on the swots or the kid who was small & actually enjoyed school and learning stuff?

 

Did you ever find yourself in the situation where no matter what you did the gobby bully wouldn't leave you alone and kept baiting you and picking on you? I was that kid and tried talking to the gobshite (didn't work as he thought it was funny to pick on the little kid & fidnt value the education that was on offer), I tried standing up for myself in the playground but I was small and couldn't fight a bigger kid who'd grown up getting hard knocks at home or wherever. So as the picked-on kid you have a choice.....put up with it and get ground down or you ask for help. As a kid you ask for help from the bigger people, which at school is the teachers or other adults. 

 

What happens then? The bullies get chastised and not wanting to reflect ob their own behaviour call the one they bullied a snitch, a grass, a dog or whatever to deflect from their own behaviour. 

 

There's always two sides to everything mate. 

iWolf:

Everyone experiences bullying from time to time. It is how you deal with it that defines a person. Anyway, the primary school analogy is nice but we are adults. That said, this thread isn't about bullying, it is about blaming others, cowardice and manipulating authority for one's own purposes.

7 years 44 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

Yep, we're adults. So we should all act that way. This can of course be taken a number of ways. 

 

If we look at China then there's definitely an immaturity about the Government & the people. All the "hurting the feelings of the Chinese people" bullshit that gets spouted every time there is criticism of the government. Especially with their bullying ways over things like the South China Sea. 

 

If we're looking closer to home on here then we've seen the playground bully in action with his baiting of certain others on here when he though my certain things should have gone his way. 

 

My view now is that he should be given his ball back so he can play again and we just get on with using this site again as a playground for all. Yes, pisstaking and all, as long as it doesn't go back to being aimed at the same people all the time. 

7 years 44 weeks ago
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iWolf:

You raise an interesting point. What about a user who sends personal messages to tell you that they will keep reporting you until you are banned and gloats about doing this same thing to another user recently?

 

It's not bullying. It is a small minded coward who lives by the motto "the squeeky wheel gets the oil".

 

As you know, I have been subjected to a vigorous campaign of bullying, rumours and social assassination in this town....my response? Pffft! I am a grown man so why would I give a crap about some losers not liking me or believing ridiculous rumours? Of course, a dig at the twonks now and then is a bit of comedy. I'd prefer to be the brunt of this concerted campaign than some sad sack who is too insecure to treat it for what it is.

 

At least if these cowards focus on me they will leave others alone.

7 years 44 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

Looking at your side of it you've got a valid point. On here it's just keyboard warriors. Your situation was/is real people in the place you call home. 

 

I I don't like bullying full stop. From being on the receiving end of it as a kid to seeing how adults carry on the playground insults. 

 

Pisstaking - fine up to a point. 

Once it tips over into bullying/picking on the same person it needs stopping. The person currently banned took it too far in my view, even after he'd been warned by admin. You're just inflaming the situation. I think all sides should just stop or this site is going to finally fall off the edge of a cliff 

7 years 44 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

"What about a user who sends personal messages to tell you that they will keep reporting you until you are banned and gloats about doing this same thing to another user recently?"

 

Are you sure there wasn't a caveat on that? Like "if X actions keep occurring, then they'll report you?" Did they 'gloat', or make a statement of fact?

 

If said person was just going to report you (or someone else) for no reason at all, that'd be just rude! However, if that person was the subject of constant harassment, insult, abuse, etc - then that would be fair enough...

 

You may think people should deal with things your way, but that's not how the world works. Everyone has the right to choose their actions themselves (within the general guidelines of life... or T&Cs).

7 years 44 weeks ago
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It is not just you. This trait definitely exists amongst Chinese nationals. I just put it down to a cultural nuance (the yangist mentality as has been mentioned on this forum).

 

Lazy and inept students blame teachers for examination failure, bosses blame (and sack) employees when covering up their own incompetence, shop owners blame customers for faulty goods, the government blames anyone and everyone but themselves when domestic policies cause mayhem, resentment and trouble.

 

Yes, it is irritating but it is just another one of those little joys of being in China. After a while, you just live with it or move on.

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National trait, government on down. Government blames Japan and America Chinese people blame others.

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@iWolf.

Not sure if you're talking about China in general, or the bitchy infighting that goes on here on ECC. Or both.

 

Why? This is China so.. no why.

 

Chinese culture seems to be to bully and steal from those who are weaker. If the weaker person tries to call attention to it or get help they're 'disrupting the harmony' and are blamed for it. I think that's just deflection.. I don't want to be in the wrong so you are....  it's a childish mentality where they can't accept consequences for their actions.

 

You see this all time with people trying to petition Beijing when corrupt officials or those with connections and power steal their farm,bully them into giving up their homes so a new apartment block can be built,  dump chemicals in their drinking water... that sort of thing. Often the whistle blowers are beaten up, thrown in prison and charged with disrupting social order or something.

 

Usually the bully in the situation has a massive sense of entitlement, is a corrupt piece of shite and just doesn't accept, or care that they're in the wrong. They want what others have and that's that, they'll just take it.

 

Are they wrong for snitching? I don't think so, not that it does any good usually. What else can they do, and isn't that what the law is supposed to be for?

 

I do admit the tattling culture gets taken way too far here in China though and is often just a cowardly back hand way to get at people you resent or don't like. The cultural revolution mentality... you resent your neighbor because they have a better house or social standing than you so you go tell everyone they are counter revolutionaries and have them beaten up.

 

If you're talking about here on ECC, I don't know the back story, but there is a lot of snarky bullshiz goes on,always has been and some is just childish bullying.

I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone here but if someone gets sick of being constantly abused and insulted just because someone doesn't like them, should they really have to put up with it or can't they just ask that ECC's terms and conditions are stuck to?

Attack the message not the poster and all that.

If someone does get banned for abuse, they really can't blame anyone but themselves.

iWolf:

I think you hit the nail on the head.

 

The tattling culture goes way too far....and it is a cowardly back hand way to get at people you resent. That's the point I was trying to make.

 

I have noticed it starts with kids and adults perpetuate it.

 

Just last week I was at the inlaws and there was a puddle of water on the floor. I asked nephew who did it as he was jumping about with a big cup of water. Immediately he pointed at the baby who is just starting to walk and was asleep on the sofa. Later, the brother in law's wife had a passive aggressive shot at the baby's mum about it. This analogy can been seen in many situations.

 

Even at work if there is an issue, blame must be given rather than solve the situation and the poor sap who got blamed (rightly or wrongly) is reported to a supervisor. They think I am a madman for trying to solve problems without finding a scapegoat. Sometimes shit just happens...but here there has to be some reporting and subsequent punishment. My boss is very am-bitch-ous and uses this to crush anyone with smarts or potential.

7 years 44 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

"I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone here but if someone gets sick of being constantly abused and insulted just because someone doesn't like them, should they really have to put up with it or can't they just ask that ECC's terms and conditions are stuck to?"

 

I'm surprised a few of us here (including myself) didn't get warnings or bans for some of the posts against, eg, Cub. and others... I'm putting that down to Grumpy not being around too much back then. (I notice that he's back, and the posts are a LOT tamer).

7 years 44 weeks ago
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You appear to be asking two different questions... and mixing them up (which actually leads to a delicious irony!)

 

Firstly - blame. Yes. China does this a lot! As a couple said - laziness or incompetence leads to blaming others when things go wrong. It's a lack of personal responsibility (possibly caused by being in a society where taking responsibility often means nothing... or, there is always someone to over-rule you if you do take responsibility.

 

The other 'question' is about 'reporting' others. There are two elements to this. Firstly, those who do nothing, don't try to accomplish much, but have to bring others down so they can get up. Often passivve-aggressive. And usually unable to hold their own ground  To me, it's another form of laziness and incompetence.

 

But... there is the other type (which is where you're "dog", "dingo" etc comes in). "Snitching/dobbing". Such insults are used by those who actually do the 'wrong' thing (breaking laws, ignoring rules, breaching T&Cs). The people who abide by the laws etc don't actually try to manipulate others by insulting them by using such terms - it's only those who do break the rules who are using it as a control mechanism. Bullies (and criminals) will call someone a 'dog' for going to the police (or other authorities).

 

The delicious irony? By labelling someone who 'dobs' (ie, goes to the relevant authorities when rules/laws etc are broken) are cowardly denying responsibility for their actions! In my mind, such people are pathetic losers. They do something they know is wrong, and when they get the punishment for it, they winge and bitch to everyone that whoever 'dobbed' them in is a dog. Ie, they don't have the courage to just stand up and take it... "Yep, I broke the rules... I'll take the punishment for it".

 

They are also the people who will take all the benefits the society (group, etc) has to offer, but want things done their way. The drug-runner is happy to have roads, and cars and banks, etc which they can abuse to their advantage... but then bitch and moan when busted when the other elements they tacitly agreed to come down on them...

 

"a goal oriented agenda to ...  remove a percieved obstacle?"

 

Q: if a woman is sexually harassed at work, is it a "goal oriented agenda" to want that person removed if they continue to behave inappropriately after being warned? Should they not go to the police/HR/boss etc for this??

 

Is it a "a goal oriented agenda" for a robbery victim to want to see the perpetrator punished for stealing their stuff? Again are you suggesting they shouldn't go to the police?

 

Is it  "a goal oriented agenda" for a Muslim (for example) to want peace and quiet in their neighbourhood, instead of having to suffer racial abuse every time they come and go, and thus, report the offenders to the police, rather than either a) just tolerating it, b) try to beat them up. or c) insult them back.

 

And, lastly, while you may think that just putting up with it is the best way to deal with it, I see that as very selfish and narrow-minded. Let's take Hotwater's bully example from above. The bully picks on someone. That person just deals with it... so the bully learns that he can get away with it, so picks on someone else. Who just deals with it, so he then picks on someone else. That person hits back. The bully now knows that there are some people you can pick on, and some who you can't... so, he carefully picks his targets. He bullies someone else, who just lets it go. Another bullying session, and he gets smacked down... so, he gets stronger force, and again gets knocked down. Bully now learns - bullying still works, but he has his place in the chain.

 

He then picks on someone else, who reports it. The bully is now on the receiving end of punishment. The 'authorities' are now aware, and keep an eye out on the bully... and when they see something, they crack down on it. Possibly getting kicked out of that society (on a bigger scale, that means going to jail). Bully now learns (maybe!) that society doesn't tolerate bullies.

 

Just putting up with it (or hitting back - ie, lowering to the bully's level) keeps the cycle going. It might fix things for you... but doesn't fix it for anyone else.

 

Also, if someone is going to be pressured into conforming (ie, accepting 'wrong' behaviour) just because someone calls them a 'dog', then I think they're pretty weak and easy to be pushed around.

iWolf:

TL:DR (Too long didn't read)

 

Therefore I have no idea what you wrote....but I know it would be pompous bollocks with some analogies that are irrelevant and completely out of context. That's how you roll.

 

Blow me burgerboy. Get a haircut and stop pretending you are clever. You aren't, knob-jockey and the more you write, protest it and feebly attempt to justify it just makes you look like a bigger wanker.

7 years 44 weeks ago
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Right, Now that Iwolf has taken his "polite" gloves off after his first post on this topic got harmonised we might as well just be straight about it. 

 

Your mate Phil got his eventual ban after WEEKS of purposely baiting Scotsalan and then going way above what the T&C's allowed on bullying other forum members & using abusive language. 

 

The thing that started Phil on his digging was what he wrongly saw as a new poster breaking the T&C's. So what did he do? Proceed to recklessly and purposely break them. He deserved temporary his ban! Though saying that I hope he starts posting again and most of what he wrote was relevant, funny or both. He just needs to drop his bullying and animosity. 

 

You also were purposely, with Phil, starting to bully Sainthood as neither of you liked the way he put down some of your rather puerile arguments. So Sainthood has taken to reporting any of your posts that were aimed at him that broke the T&C's. 

 

So so you start this topic as a general question, with no names, yet we all knew who you were referring to. All this bullshit about dogs/grasses/dobbing in. Bullies, in real life and online deserve to be dobbed in. It's people like Phil & you who are dragging what's left of this forum down. Why?

 

As to your latest replied today. Sainthood tried to keep to the unspoken rules of your question with no names mentioned. I've always done that in the past with no mention or clues of who you are or the city you live. I'll keep to that on here. 

 

But what do you do? Your replies tonight are again puerile, immature and offensive. Sainthood won't be the only one who reports them. I'll do

it myself. Idiot!

iWolf:

Wow! I'm flattered that you believe that I am responsible for the demise of this forum. And Phil (RIP) of course. There couldn't possibly be any other reasons.

 

I'm sorry that you are still struggling with unresolved childhood issues. So go ahead report me to your heart's content if it makes you feel better. Just be careful you don't become what you profess to despise. Ooops. It's always nice to see hipocracy at work. lol

 

So after you get me banned, who will you blame for the continued downward spiral of this forum? How many regular users? A dozen? Yeah, better start a witch hunt and ban some more, that will certainly help keep the body twitching.

 

 

Remember, this is the internet, not real life!

7 years 44 weeks ago
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Hotwater:

Yeah bit of an annoyed rant and as its not real life I calmed down after having my rant. I've only ever reported a couple of posts here but they were trolls looking for reactions with extreme posts. 

 

This is site has been slowly dying for a while (crap/repeated articles, etc) but the petty bickering and the recent bating/bullying of particular posters by Phil and you doesn't help  at all. I'm not looking for a harmonious forum as banter and pisstaking is what helps with dealing with some of the stupid shit that comes with living here. My points in my previous replies on this topic were just to back down a bit. You looked to be doing that until Sainthood replied. You got what you s really wanted...another chance to dig at him in the same manner as a schoolyard bully. 

7 years 44 weeks ago
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iWolf:

That's not bullying. If I really wanted to issue a proper smackdown to someone, you know that I am more than capable of it. Making it a stated goal to get others banned paints a target on your back.

 

The fact is these little spats give the old women on this forum something to gossip about over the back fence. Making it a stated goal to get others banned paints a target on your back.

 

If you noticed the top 15 users, they are basically the only users other than a small handful of others.  Cutting off your nose in spite of your face? Our biblical friends may even say "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"?

 

7 years 44 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

Wolfie, you should learn to read.

 

You seem to very conveniently (read: 'intentionally') ignore the "If you harass me, I"ll report it. You do it often enough, you'll get banned" bit!

 

You should also learn to think. There was no 'stated goal' as you put it. And, if there was one, it would CLEARLY be getting the constant insults, abuse and harassment to stop.

 

You want a forum where people are allowed to abuse and harass others as much as they want.

 

The mods have made it crystal clear that they do not want this type of forum.

 

(As much as this will be a waste of time writing...) iWolfe - question: do you consider the constant insults and abuse you throw at some users (such as myself) as 'harassment'?

 

Q2: do you think the attacks you post against me and some others are against the T&Cs of this site?

 

Q3: what value do such posts add such that the mods and forum owners should keep them up for all to read?

 

Q4: are you a mainlander Chinese? The Yang is strong in you... blaming other people for your lack of comprehension. Unwilling to take responsibility (and hence, consequences) for your actions. Bullying to get your own way and 'look good'. Completely ignore logic and valid points (ie, don't bother to read them, just insult instead). This is iWolf - you don't understand! 5000 post history!

7 years 44 weeks ago
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iWolf:

Sorry SB, did you go on another pompous crybaby rant at me while I was busy not giving a f@$& about you?

 

Ummm, pot, kettle, black anyone? Ha ha ha

7 years 44 weeks ago
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Oh, thats what this is about? Phil finally got banned? that was long coming. Looks like iWolf wants to join his mate? I'm not surprised.

iWolf:

Actually, in spite of the attempts to make this about Phil, in fact it has nothing to do with him.

7 years 44 weeks ago
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Shining_brow:

Phil got banned because of... well, you know why. And, because it was reported!

 

Wolf is doing the exact same things as Phil, but wants a little winge before he goes down, because he doesn't want to be reported... and so is trying to make an issue about it - ie, "if you report people, you're a dog".

 

Because he (and Phil) started to target me (almost every post) with insult and abuse, I started using that button. It was harassment (pretty damn obviously to everyone)  All of the above are against the T&Cs.

 

And, so, I sent a PM to Wolf saying "If you harass me, I"ll report it. You do it often enough, you'll get banned". A no-brainer. But, Wolf has it in his head that the goal is to get him banned. He's missed the bit about stopping the harassment....

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I saw some drama in a store recently.

It looked like an older woman was caught shoplifting and the shop owner was trying to take things back off her and get her to empty her pockets. She was refusing and trying to snatch back whatever he'd taken off her and making a huge scene.

 

Her shrieking was basically all about how she was being bullied, everything in the store was too expensive and she was the victim there. She actually had her finger in his face screaming at him like it was his fault she was stealing his things.

 

Same thing you see all the time. Somebody in the wrong can't accept blame, somebody else must be at fault, she shouldn't have to accept any consequences for her actions and if there are consequences then it's not fair....and the only defense available is abusing the victim and deflecting by ignoring the facts and trying to change the subject. 

 

 

expatlife26:

Yeah sounds familiar

7 years 44 weeks ago
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Who is Sainthood? I never saw a poster by that name

Hotwater:

Haha, was referring to Shining brow! I'd just been on another forum having a discussion and got usernames mixed up. 

7 years 44 weeks ago
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I picked up my son and was walking to catch a taxi and this woman on her E bike rode into me,well she blamed me for what she did.

she could have gone around me but she thought riding into me was a better option.

 

she got pissed off at me,I raised my middle finger and told her to F off.

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