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Posts: 7178

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Q: Working on a spouse visa?

If you were back home, and discovered some of your foreign mates were working illegally on spouse or tourist visas, would you report them?

Is there different 'levels' of illegal migration? For example, is a Brit working as a teacher in China on an M visa above an undocumented Mexican harvesting crops in California?

Edit. When I say home, I mean back in your home country. Not in China.

5 years 48 weeks ago in  General  - China

 
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The fact that you even consider whether you should report your friends to the government for working with the wrong visa, makes me glad I don't know you personally.

Damn. Report your *friends* to the Chinese regime, seriously? Report your friends to a racist regime, because they work illegally in a country where everybody cheats, and all foreigners are subjected to huge stressors from society and government? You feel it's OK to bring the entire weight of the legal system down on them? You suck at being friends.

What was the real trigger, the one you don't want to admit to? Something in the pretty GF category, or more like frustration at all the difficulties of a legal visa, resenting the ones who took their chances and just went illegal?

I worked 3 years on a spouse visa. I was reported endlessly, though probably not by friends. Since I was good at making people happy, and a decent educator, my school was 'educated' on proper procedure, and paid their 'lesson fees' to the PSB. I'm not living in China anymore, but feel free to report me.

One constant I've found in people, is that their insecurity is directly correlated with their willingness to raise unnecessary drama for people around them. Chinese understand this much. Perhaps you should find what's troubling you, and solve that for yourself. Lashing out at others is gratifying symptom relief, but being the drama queen doesn't address the source of your insecurity.

ScotsAlan:

The question asks if you were in your home country. If you were in your home country, and you had, for example, a Syrian mate working illegally, would you report him or her?

5 years 48 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

Sorry to hear you were reported Coin. I cant begin to understand a foreigner reporting another foreigner here.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Reading comprehension fail, sorry. Anyway, I'd NEVER report any illegals, unless there was a danger, like they're mentally unbalanced or bring creepy drug characters into the neighbourhood. If they're just going about their business, I'd never screw up another person's livelihood. Catching illegals is the government's responsibility, and there's a reason the government has this task, not vigilantes. I'm not going to destroy social capital by pretending to be a backstabbing SS-informant.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

I get it about the creep stuff. I would report them to the police to be investigated. Not to immigration.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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ironman510:

Lets be honest too if you refort someone, the PSB 5% out of 100% of the time would actually care to go round you up.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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RandomGuy:

This! I would feel zero guilt cheating the system in China because everybody cheats in every ways possible on a normal basis. This isn't the case in Western countries where most citizens strictly abide by the law when it comes to labor regulations and earnings taxes. Chinese can't really complain about Foreigners working illegally and not paying taxes when they themselves work without a contract and dodge taxes in every way possible without giving it a second thought. You get the society you preach for, you can't expect some people to strictly abide by the laws and others to run wild, it just doesn't work that way, never did, never will.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Let's be honest: Wealth, connections and influence are used in the West as well, and the higher up the ladder you get, the easier it is made for you to cheat the system. There's a dishonest subculture in the West, too, but we are sanctimonious about it, to preserve the general appearance of honesty, fairness and accountability. But the more you know about politics, the more you realize it's all windowdressing to maintain decorum. As such, any person who thinks it's OK to bother minorities because of residency status or alleged system abuses, is making a naive, misguided value statement. You can explain to them that what they are doing is racist, but they'd never believe you. This sort of distraction makes it easy for the people at the top to rob the country blind, while everyone else is fighting over petty principles and scraps.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

I get what Random says. Why pay tax when locals dont. Random wins that one.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Taxes are a government's business. If you take up this as your personal petty principal, nobody is served but your own ego. Vigilantism against illegal immigrants is far more likely to provoke feelings of racial tension, disrespect, violation and encroachment on people's freedom. Actions, reactions, resulting in EVERYONE (not just the foreigners - everyone) feeling unsafe and unhappy. Meaning the need for more policing, (mental) healthcare, and reducing sales for the middle class. When everyone is stressed, all the money goes to the super rich, because they sell insurances, security services, legal aid, cars, (fence) construction, etc. Well done, vigilante: you earned a drop of taxes for the government, but you tipped over a bucketfull of social trust and capital. Have a pat on the back with the stupid stick.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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5 years 48 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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Yes. but it isn't  likely to happen because Canada lets anyone in. Including Canadians who have left to become terrorists

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5 years 48 weeks ago
 
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Where I come from, reporting your mates for anything short of rape, murder or being a pedo is just about the lowest, most reprehensible thing a person could do and they will forever labled a Dog. They will be 'sent to coventry' permanently.

The bigger question is why would the thought of reporting someone to the Chinese authorities for something that is effectively a victimless crime and is none of your business even enter your head? Aren't they just trying to support their family under difficult circumstances?

Being a collaborator has never worked out well for such people, historically speaking. And it shouldn't.

Hotwater:

Spot on. I might joke with guys I know working on spouse visa about being illegals, especially if Americans but I don’t care & it doesn’t affect me. 

5 years 48 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

I would not report someone either. I am just interested in what makes different 'illegals' different.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

Scots: I said this before, you need pyschiatric help. Has anyone on this forum said they will report illegals?

5 years 48 weeks ago
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5 years 48 weeks ago
 
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The fact that you even consider whether you should report your friends to the government for working with the wrong visa, makes me glad I don't know you personally.

Damn. Report your *friends* to the Chinese regime, seriously? Report your friends to a racist regime, because they work illegally in a country where everybody cheats, and all foreigners are subjected to huge stressors from society and government? You feel it's OK to bring the entire weight of the legal system down on them? You suck at being friends.

What was the real trigger, the one you don't want to admit to? Something in the pretty GF category, or more like frustration at all the difficulties of a legal visa, resenting the ones who took their chances and just went illegal?

I worked 3 years on a spouse visa. I was reported endlessly, though probably not by friends. Since I was good at making people happy, and a decent educator, my school was 'educated' on proper procedure, and paid their 'lesson fees' to the PSB. I'm not living in China anymore, but feel free to report me.

One constant I've found in people, is that their insecurity is directly correlated with their willingness to raise unnecessary drama for people around them. Chinese understand this much. Perhaps you should find what's troubling you, and solve that for yourself. Lashing out at others is gratifying symptom relief, but being the drama queen doesn't address the source of your insecurity.

ScotsAlan:

The question asks if you were in your home country. If you were in your home country, and you had, for example, a Syrian mate working illegally, would you report him or her?

5 years 48 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

Sorry to hear you were reported Coin. I cant begin to understand a foreigner reporting another foreigner here.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Reading comprehension fail, sorry. Anyway, I'd NEVER report any illegals, unless there was a danger, like they're mentally unbalanced or bring creepy drug characters into the neighbourhood. If they're just going about their business, I'd never screw up another person's livelihood. Catching illegals is the government's responsibility, and there's a reason the government has this task, not vigilantes. I'm not going to destroy social capital by pretending to be a backstabbing SS-informant.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

I get it about the creep stuff. I would report them to the police to be investigated. Not to immigration.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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ironman510:

Lets be honest too if you refort someone, the PSB 5% out of 100% of the time would actually care to go round you up.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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RandomGuy:

This! I would feel zero guilt cheating the system in China because everybody cheats in every ways possible on a normal basis. This isn't the case in Western countries where most citizens strictly abide by the law when it comes to labor regulations and earnings taxes. Chinese can't really complain about Foreigners working illegally and not paying taxes when they themselves work without a contract and dodge taxes in every way possible without giving it a second thought. You get the society you preach for, you can't expect some people to strictly abide by the laws and others to run wild, it just doesn't work that way, never did, never will.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Let's be honest: Wealth, connections and influence are used in the West as well, and the higher up the ladder you get, the easier it is made for you to cheat the system. There's a dishonest subculture in the West, too, but we are sanctimonious about it, to preserve the general appearance of honesty, fairness and accountability. But the more you know about politics, the more you realize it's all windowdressing to maintain decorum. As such, any person who thinks it's OK to bother minorities because of residency status or alleged system abuses, is making a naive, misguided value statement. You can explain to them that what they are doing is racist, but they'd never believe you. This sort of distraction makes it easy for the people at the top to rob the country blind, while everyone else is fighting over petty principles and scraps.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

I get what Random says. Why pay tax when locals dont. Random wins that one.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Taxes are a government's business. If you take up this as your personal petty principal, nobody is served but your own ego. Vigilantism against illegal immigrants is far more likely to provoke feelings of racial tension, disrespect, violation and encroachment on people's freedom. Actions, reactions, resulting in EVERYONE (not just the foreigners - everyone) feeling unsafe and unhappy. Meaning the need for more policing, (mental) healthcare, and reducing sales for the middle class. When everyone is stressed, all the money goes to the super rich, because they sell insurances, security services, legal aid, cars, (fence) construction, etc. Well done, vigilante: you earned a drop of taxes for the government, but you tipped over a bucketfull of social trust and capital. Have a pat on the back with the stupid stick.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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5 years 48 weeks ago
 
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To clarify the question. It asks if you were in your home country. And you had friends working illegally there. In your home country.

To answer coin, the trigger was following #torontoterror on twitter, and also the windrush stuff in the UK.

I am interested in how people catagorise 'illegalness', if there is such a word.

ScotsAlan:

And yes. I am aware that many tweets, and news site comments come from exterior forces trying to influence and split western society. China and Russia do it. Fox news presenters do it with a blue tick by their name.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Legality is how the government expresses it's vested interests. If you mistake it for ethical righteousness or virtue, you are deluded. Even Confucius, the most conformist, conscientious of history's philosophers, believed that a government could go too far. Illegal immigrants are human beings, living, breathing, with hopes and dreams. How the law treats people reflects on the legitimacy of the government. What the law says has NO BEARING on how you should treat people. Do not make that mistake. If you don't know this, then you are no better than people who feel justified attacking Muslims or Mexicans because a politician said something judgemental. Think for yourself and question authority.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

My post is anti Muslim attackers and wall builders. Slow down mate. Read what I write.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

I know. I know your views. But for conservatives, there would be a double standard about reporting and deporting. Do unto others what you'd find unjust for yourself. When I say "that makes you no better than...", I'm not talking about you specifically.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

Understood Coin.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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5 years 48 weeks ago
 
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THere are different standards when it comes to this. In China people teaching on a family visa is the norm and is pretty much accepted.They are on the same level as a illegal Mexican fruit picker.Most never have a problem, only some. People just turn a blind eye to it. Now if you found out your child’s teacher from Canada ,UK ect was teaching with fake credientials or without the proper license... there would be outrage.Differnt set of standards. 

ScotsAlan:

Outrage over a teachers credentials would depend on what is claimed and what is charged. I would have no problem if my daughter was taught by an illegal Russian. My opinion being that the more accents heard the better. But I would have a problem if a school was charging me 500rmb for an Oxbridge liguist and autually supplied an illegal Slovakian.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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5 years 48 weeks ago
 
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Americans would call ICE, in China just a slap on the wrist

5 years 48 weeks ago
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5 years 48 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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They're my mates, so I wouldn't do that. 

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5 years 48 weeks ago
 
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There must be a phenomenon with regards to working on a Q visa. All my friends love it and make more and never get caught, only 5% of people get caught.

 

But why don't people get caught?

 

Why doesn't the PSB go after these married spouses?

 

Why are the visa's renewed even if they are caught?

 

Why why Why lol

 

The PSB knows about this, they know when they hand you a visa you'll be working on it.

Even if you are not working they will still guess you will work on it.

 

 

Now there is away of working on a Q visa that just keeps getting better and better.

 

For ESL teachers: Teach English online, there are tons of companies now, VIPKids is low pay but they give steady hours and can make 15,000 if you work weekends, DADA_English pays more.

 

So how or why is it legal?

 

1. You are using the internet you pay for.

 

2. Any of these online companies can transfer the salary to your Overseas Bank account and or Chinese spouse. As long as its not going into a bank in your name in China than thats perfectly fine.

 

So Q visa guys give that a shot but i know I know I doubt you'll need it. But its a good backup.

 

 

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5 years 48 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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I would never report anyone either friends or not friends.

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5 years 48 weeks ago
 
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Are you so far up your own ass you don't understand the difference between arguing for/ against policy vs caring for loved ones?

 

I can be for the death penalty but if my brother kills sb (except if he killed a kid or the circumstances showed that he was a monster) I'd not want him to die and would do anything to protect him.

 

Many of my friends were illegal and I wouldn't want to see them deported but that doesn't factor in when it comes to deciding what policy is best for the country.

Your mind is so diseased that you can only see things through a seriously narrow prism where you think the only reason people are against illegal immigrant protection is because they have deep seeded hatred against Mexicans. You do realize not all illegals in the US are from Latin countries?

Some people are mature and sensible enough to decide against what they actually want because it serves they greater fucking good. 

Look at the housing crisis in San Francisco, it's unaffordable to many who work there. 

ScotsAlan:

I considered becoming an Illegal in NY in the late 90s. Get bar work, bus to Niagra every 6 months for visa waiver. Decided against it when an upper west side property agent wanted me to pay up front for a room before I had seen it.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

The housing crisis is world wide. Just another typical throw it in the pile right wing comment. Cant afford a house... blame the illegals. They are crossing the borders with millions of bucks, buying up houses with no documents, and depriving good middle class folk from what they deserve.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

Again, your diseased mind just can't work. There are different types of housing crisis. China has a surplus of homes but the govt artificially keeps the home prices up. Many western countries, Canada and the US for example, have inflated values because (in part) illegal immigration has led to an unexpected increase in certain areas like San Fran, LA, NY and many medium sized cities and even smaller cities. Illegal immigrants aren't and can't be accounted for in urban planning

5 years 48 weeks ago
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coineineagh:

Englteachted addressed a valid point, here: Your responsibilities as a family member / friend are different from your responsibilities as citizen. In my private life, I often defer to my wife for decisions, because she is more skilled at getting more for our family. If it was left up to me, I'd be easily talked out of every extra penny because of 'moral obligations'. I recently had an audit by the tax office and trust me, even in a rules-obiding country like Germany, the tax officers decide arbitrarily against you over every administrative oversight. I was forced to pay VAT taxes back, amounting to almost 9000 euros, because I didn't collect receipts for the packages I sent out. Even though they believed me when I said it was really sent to China, and even though I produced shipment tracking for every single package sent to China... Nope, paperwork not in order, so let's treat your sales as if they had been sold inside Europe. My point is: Yes, support a more transparent, law-abiding government when you go to the ballot box. But in interaction, mum's the word, and don't just assume people will treat you fairly - that assumption is how they get you.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

But an illegal migrant cant get a mortgage. The high net worth individuals everyone want are legal. Want a green card to come here with your corrupt money? No probem. Talk to Jareds sister.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

But they rent, competing directly with poor people and they do buy homes by pooling their money and get mortgages through a countryman that is legal

5 years 47 weeks ago
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As far as the social capital thing goes...I think it is far more destructive to have an illegal take the place of a legal worker

iWolf:

Although I'm inclined to agree with you, I'm wondering your reasons.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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As far as the social capital thing goes...I think it is far more destructive to have an illegal take the place of a legal worker

ScotsAlan:

Not so sure. Take an illegal fruit picker in California. Working for low wages, cant pay tax, cant take out the the system. But they pay VAT on what they buy, the banks earn on sending the cash home, and the farmer pays company tax on his bussiness. The money goes through the chain from the seed seller, distribution, retail, all the way to the landfill site.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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If you have someone qualified and who has jumped through all the hoops, he deserves the job, not some loser who has so badly messed up his life that the only choice he or she has is to work illegally

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5 years 48 weeks ago
 
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On the subject of legal visas etc, I found myself angry about work visas in the UK tonight as I perused the news.

First, the UK government have been deporting legal brits, born and raised in the UK, after the Government destroyed the docs that prove they are brits. The windrush scandal.

Then the brit home sec says they dont have deportation targets. Cough cough.. erm.. yes we do says the home office.

Then to cap it all, after a week of intense attacks on our NHS, the news comes out that the UK gov have refused 200 work visas for 200 Indian doctors the NHS recruited. The figure of refused medic staff visas for this year is suspected to be over 800.

And yup, I know the arguements about developed nations robbing trained medics from developing nations.

The fecking Tories are destroying our NHS.

Had to vent that sorry.

In China I heard C grade can be limited in numbers. But I cant see them ever deny work visas for medical doctors.

I cant see China limiting the number of work visas for qualified teachers either.

Fecking tories. Chinese and Russian billionaires hiding their money... no problem.. come in.

Qualified medical staff wanting to work in some of the best hospitals on the planet... hospitals who are crying out for good staff... sorry, no visa this year. Try again next year.

Grrrrrr.

Rant over

Hotwater:

If you’re going to argue immigration with people like Engles then please get your facts right mate!

 

First, the UK government have been deporting legal brits, born and raised in the UK, after the Government destroyed the docs that prove they are brits. The windrush scandal.

 

if they srrived on tje Windrush then they CAN’T have been back rn & bred in the UK! The documents that were destroyed were immigrant landing papers!

 

please stand on the basis of facts!

5 years 48 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/windrush-scandal-yvonne-williams-immigrants-migration-theresa-may-uk-government-a8320401.html

5 years 48 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

They are detaining and deporting the kids of the windrush generation. The government destroyed their parents landing cards in 2009, 2010. Please keep up with the news :-)

5 years 48 weeks ago
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ScotsAlan:

Ok Hots.. I give you that. Maybe not born on the UK Island, but raised here. And this goes back to colonial times when visas were not so important.

5 years 48 weeks ago
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Englteachted:

Scots, you're a fucking liar, they didn't deport the kids. The parents were deported so of course they're gonna take their kids. 

This was govt corruption and those involved should be jailed. 

 

But what does legal immigrants getting screwed have to do with illegal immigrants? 

Those legal immigrants that got screwed will get their day in court and get millions while illegals cost govts billions

5 years 47 weeks ago
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dp sorry

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Answer of the DayMORE >>
A:  "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "S
A: "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "Shenzhen agent can connect you with an employer, who's authorized to hire waigouren ... and can sponsor Z visa." It's not like every 10th person you meet in Shenzhen's hood can sponsor work visa ...  The only way to change from student to labourer visa is just a regular way by: 1. Finding an employer, who'll apply for an Invitation letter; 2. Exit China and apply for Z visa in your home country's Chinese embassy; 3. Enter China in 30-days after Z visa was stamped into your travelling instrument ...As I am aware, you won't be able to switch to Working permit by remaining in China....,so make ready for a return to your home .... -- icnif77