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Posts: 928

Shifu

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Q: Do bureaucracy and China just perfectly match with each other?

Sure, having specialized departments with special authority to do a certain number of documentation procedures is an inescapable form of civil life. However more often than not, in China at least, the attitude of workers located within these different departments seems to equate to that of a soulless drone. At this point, that's not unacceptable by any means, so long as they are actually performing the function of their intended role.  

 

The greatest aggravation comes when you know it is their responsibility to perform a specific action, and they insist with simple sentences such as 'how they are not responsible for that action "Zhe wo bu fuze."  That aggravation reaches its tipping point when you realize you are stuck in between two unwilling workers bouncing you back and forth, where you have seemingly become the object of their little proxy war. Instead of coming to an understanding with each other privately about who does what and when, they prefer to bounce their responsibilities between each other like it's a game or something.   This may happen in a civil administration, a university, or at any other paper pushing place. 

 

It seems inherent that if you are Chinese, your instinct is to avoid any responsibility at all costs. This is shown time and time again and everybody experiences it.  However, it seems that bureaucracy enables this negative trait more so than any other structural mechanism I can conceive of.  Is bureaucracy  therefore perfect for china? I once saw an interesting description on this forum of Chinese culture as a hedonistic culture. Despite all the changes happening here, a strong and disabling sense of laziness and carelessness persists all throughout.  Are Chinese lazy? Does a 9-5 workday work for them? What are the sources of this behavior, and will it ever die out? 

8 years 50 weeks ago in  General  - China

 
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Sorrel is right. China can afford hordes of bureaucrats since the salaries are on the low side.

 

Top level civil servants earn no more than 5000RMB/month if you exclude bribes, and those are people with 20~30 years of experience. Bottom-of-the-barrel public employees earn no more than 2500RMB/month and can hardly collect any bribe since they have no guanxi yet and if their manager (the same top level servant who also collects bribes) finds out they will get into big troubles.

 

Bureaucracy keeps people employed, while people are working they do not conspire against the government. Same logic when they keep factories running in overcapacity or keep building more and more unneeded infrastructures, while the workers are employed they do not conspire against the government or start riots. The CCP is perfectly aware that it couldn't contain nationwide uprisings even with the help of the army. Also the deal made by Deng with Chinese people was "do not mingle with political affairs and we will provide jobs for everyone".

 

Now when it comes to private companies this is another story. A crowded office means good business even though many people might not have anything to do. At my workplace we have 14 people in my office alone, I think 3 would be enough to run the office efficiently without them being overworked. Most are family relatives of the office manager, they have nothing to do but have pressured the manager into hiring them probably using emotional threats. As for me, well, it isn't my company, I do my job, as long they pay my salary I have nothing to say on how they run the office.

coineineagh:

Keep the kids in the classroom, so they don't stir up trouble. Keep the graduates in the office, so they don't make trouble. Keep the internet locked tight, so they can't view anything disruptive. Bureaucracy in China is glorified babysitting.

8 years 50 weeks ago
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8 years 50 weeks ago
 
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Posts: 7178

Emperor

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I think it all come down to "signing things"

 

The system in China seems to be set up so nobody has to sign. It is chopped. Who chopped what can be disputed. A company MD can claim a rouge salesman stole the chop to chop an agreement.

 

But here we go. All ancient civilizations developed bureaucracy.  Egypt, Rome, etc. Fast forward, GB, Holland, Spain, with their Empires. We all know the history.

 

We have all been in a Government office, when they say the form is wrong. Go away, change that. Go back, they say go away and change this too. It can take 5 visits before they accept the form.

 

My sister in law has a job like this.

 

My sister in law is a fantastic person. In her job she has to be blunt. She has to take charge with a nonchalant manner. If she was to show she actually cares for a person with a specific issue, the person would rip the fuck out of her to get what they can.

 

Everyone is equal. Show no emotion.  Their problem is not your problem.

 

Pass it along.

 

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8 years 50 weeks ago
 
Posts: 3837

Emperor

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Bureaucracy keeps people employed, no matter how small the task.

 

My first year when registering in my local police station after returning after Spring Festival, the officer that stamped the form was located in another building, on the second floor, down a long corridor........

As far as i could make out, that was her only responsibility.

 

Such jobs probably fit the psyche of the people: narrow parameters, little thought required, the ability to pass the buck really easily as to contradict a superior will cause loss of face.

ScotsAlan:

The random thing is an anti corruption measure

8 years 50 weeks ago
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8 years 50 weeks ago
 
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Sorrel is right. China can afford hordes of bureaucrats since the salaries are on the low side.

 

Top level civil servants earn no more than 5000RMB/month if you exclude bribes, and those are people with 20~30 years of experience. Bottom-of-the-barrel public employees earn no more than 2500RMB/month and can hardly collect any bribe since they have no guanxi yet and if their manager (the same top level servant who also collects bribes) finds out they will get into big troubles.

 

Bureaucracy keeps people employed, while people are working they do not conspire against the government. Same logic when they keep factories running in overcapacity or keep building more and more unneeded infrastructures, while the workers are employed they do not conspire against the government or start riots. The CCP is perfectly aware that it couldn't contain nationwide uprisings even with the help of the army. Also the deal made by Deng with Chinese people was "do not mingle with political affairs and we will provide jobs for everyone".

 

Now when it comes to private companies this is another story. A crowded office means good business even though many people might not have anything to do. At my workplace we have 14 people in my office alone, I think 3 would be enough to run the office efficiently without them being overworked. Most are family relatives of the office manager, they have nothing to do but have pressured the manager into hiring them probably using emotional threats. As for me, well, it isn't my company, I do my job, as long they pay my salary I have nothing to say on how they run the office.

coineineagh:

Keep the kids in the classroom, so they don't stir up trouble. Keep the graduates in the office, so they don't make trouble. Keep the internet locked tight, so they can't view anything disruptive. Bureaucracy in China is glorified babysitting.

8 years 50 weeks ago
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8 years 50 weeks ago
 
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