icnif77:

I was thinking about how could I know for sure, somebody is sexually abusing students ...

  ... only threesome comes to mind, but then we both are abusing ... 

The one legal way out is "you/other guy is abusing more   than me".

I like Law ... 

Blondie_:

short of actually witnessing someone abuse another (or the abuser telling the OP), the abused would probably exhibit a change in behaviour over a period of time.

given the class sizes in China, how would 1 (foreign) teacher had the opportunity to observe what is a single childs' normal behaviour as a basis for comparison?

There are so many questions, and sadly the who area of abuse is so emotive that people jump to conclusions that may not be there.

I know it is better to be safe than sorry, but this is an area where you have to tread carefully.

I in no way condone abuse of any sort, but people are quick to believe false as well as true accusations, and the consequences of a false accusation can be worse that a correct accusation.

This is where rules that prohibit teachers being involved in any out-of-class association with students have to be followed without question.

Blondie_:

Equally there is no mention of the age of the students allegedly being abused.

I also witnessed female university students making sexual advances to foreign male teachers, some of whom had to be reminded to discourage the students, and some who had the good sense to avoid any compromising situations.
Equally there were some foreign teachers who bragged of their exploits.

Sadly the sexual abuse of students (of any age or sex) is not confined to foreign teachers in China.

icnif77:

As per my experience and observations, Chinese teachers aren't dumb, deaf&blind considering children mistreatment and abuse.

I, as a laowai English teacher was closely monitored not only at my contact with students, but also at the other matters as where I go, what I eat, drink and similar.

Times for laowai have changed in China since 2014 or so big time.

Chinese kids abuse is certainly not confined to laowai. That's a fact!

Blondie_:

certainly times have changed.

I suspect that any remaining laowei are very closely monitored, given that there are fewer than in previous years.

And there are certain people who will be quick to accuse laowei regardless of there being any truth or evidence.

It is hard to have any suggestions with such scant information.

icnif77:

You know, you are the students favorite teacher and of course you'll be observed and monitored by the Chinese teachers just 'cause of that fact. It's a simple logic!

Now, I can't imagine a way, I would KNOW somebody else is abusing students. Even if the student would confirm that to me, I'd contact either student's head teacher or principal, who are Chinese and know how to handle the matter in their way.

Blondie_:

this puts me in mind of the foreigners who went to help people involved in accidents on the street, only to be accused of causing the accident in the first place by virtue of being the foreigner.

this is a major risk when making any such allegations of abuse against another laowei, without evidence.

many class-rooms now have cameras on them, so the laowei is monitored all the time.
so this begs the question, where did the alleged abuse take place, and was it within the school/university?
and if it was off-campus, what was the teacher doing being alone with the students?

again, without knowing the ages of the students involved or any or details, it is not straightforward to say "go to the head teacher"
I do know someone who was falsely accused and after going through shit for a long time, it emerged that the accusation was malicious and considered a 'joke'

so the first step is to be sure, without reasonable doubt, that there is evidence of any abuse before escalating it. Equally the OP says ' I have a photo of him' so did the OP witness abuse and not intervene? 

 

icnif77:

I am blue eyed ..., which is not so special in the Western world, not even in Russia, but in China is something extraordinary 'cause Han all have a dark brown or black eyes colour. Turks also have eyes in only two different colours.

As soon after my first class in China, I had 3 or 4, Grade 10 students, mainly girls repeatedly came to my desk and closely stared into my eyes with surprised notion: "Your eyes are blue!".

10-15 cm was our eyes distance during the stare time. 

Now, imagine a class of 50 students have to check, if I by any chance am not wearing a fake colour lenses on my eyes ..., and multiplying all action by 14 or so different classes ... all being into my face. 

That's why ... I've always felt and enjoyed panda-like status in China ...

Turkish female students also couldn't have enough of my blue ...

Blondie_:

it makes sense in a country of homogenous charateristics, to be curious about what we take for granted.

I have green eyes which was also a source of curiosity, but i made sure there was a rigid  'no touching' policy in place.

as someone who is First Aid trained, we are told we have to ask permission before administering First Aid, and then only in the presence of another person, unless it is a family member.
the exception being if the person was unconscious, and you had to put them in the recovery position or give CPR, but then again only in the presence of another person and the only after saying what First Aid you were going to apply and why.

icnif77:

Now, the funny of my eyes colour is everybody sees blue and I see green, when in front of the mirror ...

icnif77:

While, there was no naming of the abusing teacher or place where abuse happened ... or in other words, it might be all fictitious thread, i.e. bait & click ...

Nobody can persecute anybody in this fiction ...

Blondie_:

my thoughts.

If this was genuine, and the OP genuinely did not know what to do, I would expect a different scenario.
 

I have nothing but contempt for people who treat this topic lightly as a form of vicarious enteraintment.

icnif77:

I concur! It is not lightly topic, especially if you are a teacher in constant contact with underage folks and there are certainly bad seeds among us, teachers.

I can't imagine what would I do, if baseless accusations would happened to me during my work as a teacher.

However, if you're prone to a detail, you can spot domestic teachers probes on kids treatment and possible abuse ..., not only in China, but in Russia too, and while I was in Turkey, I wasn't involved with kids teaching,

I still remember teaching 2-year old babies in China ...

Four commands: "Stand-up', 'Sit-down', 'Turn around', and 'Give a hug to each other".

Of course, I was always working with Chinese TA, but sometimes she had to take a break and I was alone with the kids.

Lesson of 4 commands is 'show&tell' and kids are repeating after myself and TA.

At 4th command, I hug TA and kids follow and hug each other. Now, TA is outside on the smoke break and I repeat the whole lesson alone with the kids. When kids see I don't have anybody to hug, they're all running toward me, competing who's going to reach me first and give me a hug. I ended-up with 4, 5 babies hanging off me.

That part of the lesson without the TA was so funny, that I had to show the same thingy to a new parents wanted to enrol their kids in the mill. Kids screaming, falling on the floor, crying, trying to reach me and give me a hug. Hilarious view for the observer ...

I like working with kids as a part-time beside my full time gig. I laugh all the time while working with little babies.

Kids are also very quick learners once they like you. They act like a vacuum machine ...

Blondie_:

your experience treaching chidlren reminds me of my first time teaching in China with a UK guy in a training school.

the children were very affectionate and liked a hug at the end of the class.

both myself and my colleague - a 6 ft 'gentle giant' both 'recoiled' as we came from a place where physical contact with students was discouaged, and we were both very conscious of this.
My colleague would explain how the kids would jump on him and hang out of him, and he was 'helpless', other than letting them down gently.

the other teachers thought we were being 'rude' not to hug the youngest children, some of who were 5 years and younger.

we compromised in only hugging the children 'goodbye' in the presence of the parents when they were leaving, so there was no 'unsupervised' contact.

in this training school I was accidently hit by one of the older boys, but he was so upset at what he had done he kept apologising, but when he saw that i knew it was an accident he cheered up a bit.

Physical contact with students, especially when needing comfort, is a difficult area.

on the flip side, i know of a foreign teacher whose female students would try and put him in compromising positions and some actually make sexual advances to him (i did witness this).

But then claimed ignorance when i took them aside and advised them to moderate their behaviour.

You never know who is filiming who these days, and if someone is trying to trap the foreigner in a 'honey trap'
 

again, i don't down-play or condone those who abuse, as there have been plenty of instances where girls have killed themselves in China after being sexually abused by local teachers, and then they were blamed.

this is why allegations of any abuse should be treated carefully.

icnif77:

I've never worked as a teacher before I came to China, i.e. I didn't have any additional schooling on proper behaviour with students. I completed the cheapest i-to-i online TEFL prep. course and here I was in China, working as an English teacher with L and F visa later on ... Year 2009.

I've always acted with students naturally and hugging off little babies wasn't out of any normal behaviour. In some kindergartens, they had a part of the classroom equipped with mattresses and kids were all over me ... I guess, kids wanted I'd stop talking ... LOLOL

Sometimes, I had to drag parents into the classroom with "Take them home, pls!" 'cause kids didn't want to go home while parents were waiting for them to come out of the open door classroom.

Blondie_:

regardless of the age of the students, there should be no physical contact with them, by a foreign teacher, that could be viewed as sexual or inappropriate.
A foreign teacher should know that there are no circumstances where sexual contact with a student of any age is excusable, and is an abuse of the student as well as an abuse of position of authority.

using the chinese 'age of consent' is not an excuse, as any such contact would be considered a breach of trust.
anyone who says "well the age of consent is 14 in China" should not be allowed near or alone with anyone under 18 (or 21), as it sounds like they will make an excuse for who knows what.
 

I outlined examples above - hugging children - that caused concern for me and a colleague initially, to be mitigated by only hugging the children in the presence of their parent (if the child wanted it), as we were careful to ensure that the child initiated the hug.

As a woman (not a trans) I have had students touch my arm or the girls would look for comfort.
Even then the student would initiate the physical contact, not me.

the exception being when the student accidently hit me.

depending on who was perpetrating the alleged abuse, the students should go to a trusted teacher, not necessarily the head teacher as it is not unknown for the head-teacher to be the perpetrator.
equally the student(s) should talk to the trusted teacher/adult not in the presence of the OP as they could be construed as being complicit in what may or may not be a false allegation.

This is an area that any reasonable teacher or adult should be competent enough to deal with, using common sense.

but then common sense is as rare as hen's teeth these days.
 

Foreign teachers should hold themselves to much higher standards when dealing with students in their care than locals.

icnif77:

@Morgan: That bothered me as soon as I read the thread first time. OP is acting like a cop in a foreign country. What's next? Should OP go and regulate the traffic ... in China?

Whole matter is most likely some kind of grudge between two persons, OP and accused teacher ... or it's just a bait&click thread, i. e fiction.

Blondie_:

@icniff

100%

given the nature of the majority of the posts recently:
    spams

    post and run with very basic questions, 

this makes sense.

sad how this site has devolved

icnif77:

Considering not too many posters are still around, Admin has to send somebody to post anything. By the way, you are always first at the spam. I've been busy lately ...  

Now, I want to tell a story about how I was once forced to act as a traffic cop ... in China.

I was working in Fuk in 2012/13, smallish city of some 1M inhabitants in N. Xinjiang.

I was housed at the smaller housing complex, some 10' walk to the Primary school, where I was working. At lunch break or at the end of the classes in the afternoon, I've always walked home with group (10 - 20) of school's students. On our way home, there was a pretty large crossing, regulated by the traffic lights.

However, Chinese drivers were driving as traffic lights would be a Christmas decoration or they were mostly colourly blind. I consider it very dangerous, so I asked Chinese teacher, where could I buy a cop's whistle. She didn't know, so my remaining choice was to grab the first cop, who crossed my walking way.

He didn't understand English, so I tried to explain in 'Morse codes', I want his whistle. He finally understood what my desires were and directed me to the smallish convenience store, where I bought a whistle.

As I was going to or leaving the school, I had a cop's whistle hanging off my neck, and once we reached the crossing, I made all kids stop and wait. At green pedestrian light, I headed into the middle of the crossing and stopped all traffic crossing our way ...

Once, I even had to stop a cop's car, and few times military vehicles, so kids could safely cross ... I showed them real Law&Traffic Order, MFs ...