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Posts: 4

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Q: My agency in China and employer won't give me a reference letter.

I went back to Ph last Feb 2020 due to pandemic. We had an agreement that I'll return to China once classes resume. But due to boarder restrictions, I wasn't able to return back to China so we came up with an agreement to cancel my contract and WP. Now, my new employer ask me for a reference letter from my previous employer but my previous employer wont even answer to all my messages. Same with my agency they told me they can't give it to me because my contract is not finished. What to do in this situation? I wanted to work again in China. 

3 years 24 weeks ago in  Visa & Legalities - China

 
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Governor

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What is Ph? Philippines? Logarithmic scale measuring acidity or alkalinity?

Why not just fake the letter? We're talking about China here afterall. Some skanky school in Nong Zhou isn't going to have letterhead.

And honestly, when has any employer ever called the author of a reference letter in China. Possibly once in the the MingDynasty and that was an accident. Make it, fake it, rake it. Win.

icnif77:

Mine are all with big, round red stamp on the bottom ...

 

In my time (until 2017), it was utmost important to received Release letter with which one could change an employer without exiting China.

It was written in Law that Co. in China must submit Release letter to an employee in 30-days after the last working day.

I am not sure, how new employment happened without Release letter 'cause I've always received one. Even when I changed an employer with exit (to HK), new Co. would always ask for Release letter.

OP is talking about Reference letter, which is completely different document. I am not sure, if Co. in China MUST submit such letter. However, I've always received one, too.

Both letters were written in Chinese and I am not sure about the content of each letter. I understood, Release letter would confirm, employee completed the contract and all contract obligations, so new Co. can employ him/her. You could also change an employer while remaining in China with Release letter.

Reference letter was document, which described employee's working habits and it wasn't required at transfer of Working permit from one employer to another.

3 years 24 weeks ago
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Sandnose:

I think he's talking about a reference... like a letter of recommendation saying he was good at his job and generally harmonious rather than a release letter. That said a cut and paste from an scanned letter online will solve the chop question. Print I in colour and Bob's your uncle

3 years 24 weeks ago
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3 years 24 weeks ago
 
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Posts: 19790

Emperor

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First mistake (IMO), you made when you agreed to terminate your contract/WP and RP.

 

The Covid thingy falls under 'force majeure' contract stipulation, but agency must pay salary and all benefits until ... you agree to contract termination.

 

You cannot enter China, so you terminated the contract ... Now, you want to work for new Co. in China ... How will you do that, when you are unable to return to China, i.e. what is the point of your Q?

 

I'd say, you might get Release letter at expiration of your contract, but again, if you mutually ended the contract, RL should be supplied to you.

 

Where to find more answers ...?

I'd say, find out, which Chinese gov. agency issues WP ... and call them for more answers and eventual resolution of RL.

 

In my time in China (... until 2017), that Co. was SAFEA, (Foreign Expert Bureau), but as it looks that gov. agency was replaced, but I don't know by who.

 

Good luck!

amcvalera:

Yes, that was a mistake because I agreed to cancel the contract. Now my boss won't answer to my messages and my agency won't help me unless I renew my contract with them. They told me it's my fault becuase I didn't renew my contract. I don't have a copy of my cancellation certificate and they didn't give me a RL. Do you think it will affect the application of my new visa under my new employer?

 

3 years 24 weeks ago
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icnif77:

I am not sure about that! I am familiar with Labour law and regulations until 2017, when ABC (or whatever ..) card was established instead of Foreign Expert Certificate.

Reasons stated by agency are hog-wash. They want you to sign with them again, so they make your fault, but "we (agency) can help you...". Never mind about the reasons agency listed.

At your post, I wasn't sure, did you make a mistake at naming of the letter. There are/were 2 letters: Release letter and Recommendation letter. You write about Recommendation letter and as I know, that letter wasn't required at transferring to new employer, while remaining in China.

I always considered Recommendation letter as my bonus, with which I was able to show new employer my working habits.

Release letter on the other hand was a MUST have for Residence permit transfer to a new employer. It was also required as I had to exit China (to HK) and start with new employment process.

As I said, I am not really sure how new rules apply, but I would say some schools will ask you for it and some they won't.

In case, new employer will require Recommendation letter, you could ask them for help at retrieving it. Just explain to them you lost contact with your previous employer and if they can contact them for you. It's a deal between Chinese ...

I would start with new application and then you will see what kind of documents new Z visa sponsor will ask you for.

Board would appreciate your feedback on the solving the matter. Thanks!

 

Good luck!

3 years 24 weeks ago
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amcvalera:

My new employer is just asking for a reference letter from my previous employer. I told him my previous employer won't cooperate, he told me he will try to help me and ask the name of my previous company. I hope he can find a way since I am here in Philippines since February. 

3 years 24 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Don't worry! It's much easier to get letter for Chinese than for you out of China. They can also talk person-to-person and find out more about your working habits.

I did similar at my last job in China in Guizhou. School wanted to see Recommendation letter and Kaifeng, Henan Uni wouldn't give it to me.

I sent them first Henan SAFEA and after few days, I told my new employer to call them. She (the boss) got Recommendation letter after few weeks.

I cancelled the contract with Henan Uni 'cause I was sitting in my apartment longer than 40-days, waiting for the new semester's schedule. However, Uni was unable to give it to me.

I received full pay for 40+30-days (Resignation term ...) on the top of the pay for a month of holidays.

I wasn't even thinking of cancelling the contract, despite they told me at my return to Kaifeng in Feb. 2016, International Class doesn't have any students in 2nd semester.

I submitted Resignation notice to Henan Uni after I signed new contract with School in Guizhou.

I wrote a thread here at the time of happening.

3 years 24 weeks ago
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3 years 24 weeks ago
 
Posts: 717

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What is Ph? Philippines? Logarithmic scale measuring acidity or alkalinity?

Why not just fake the letter? We're talking about China here afterall. Some skanky school in Nong Zhou isn't going to have letterhead.

And honestly, when has any employer ever called the author of a reference letter in China. Possibly once in the the MingDynasty and that was an accident. Make it, fake it, rake it. Win.

icnif77:

Mine are all with big, round red stamp on the bottom ...

 

In my time (until 2017), it was utmost important to received Release letter with which one could change an employer without exiting China.

It was written in Law that Co. in China must submit Release letter to an employee in 30-days after the last working day.

I am not sure, how new employment happened without Release letter 'cause I've always received one. Even when I changed an employer with exit (to HK), new Co. would always ask for Release letter.

OP is talking about Reference letter, which is completely different document. I am not sure, if Co. in China MUST submit such letter. However, I've always received one, too.

Both letters were written in Chinese and I am not sure about the content of each letter. I understood, Release letter would confirm, employee completed the contract and all contract obligations, so new Co. can employ him/her. You could also change an employer while remaining in China with Release letter.

Reference letter was document, which described employee's working habits and it wasn't required at transfer of Working permit from one employer to another.

3 years 24 weeks ago
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Sandnose:

I think he's talking about a reference... like a letter of recommendation saying he was good at his job and generally harmonious rather than a release letter. That said a cut and paste from an scanned letter online will solve the chop question. Print I in colour and Bob's your uncle

3 years 24 weeks ago
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3 years 24 weeks ago
 
Posts: 4

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My employer didn't give RL to me after I signed the Cancellation of Contract. She's not responding at all. 

diverdude1:

No offense,,, but it sounds to me like u think they owe u an RL.  What makes u think that? like a girl has got to like u because u like her.....  maybe they feel your job performance doesn't warrant an RL.

3 years 24 weeks ago
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icnif77:

I agree with Diver. It isn't mandatory for school to issue Reference letter. As I told you, RL is a bonus not a requirement.

In example, school would have many complains on your performance and behaviour, what kind of RL they should write it to you?

Not good, I assume., which you would not show to the other employers and you would most likely toss it in a bin ...

3 years 23 weeks ago
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3 years 24 weeks ago
 
Posts: 42

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Get a lawyer to help you to get back those documents asap

icnif77:

Did you ever hire lawyer in China by yourself? ... or you made up your advice by reading comments here?

 

Lawyer in China won't accept interaction into such matter, or in other words, who cares for RL ...

No lawyer would accept matter related to the contract disputes and obvious employer's disregards of contract terms ..., and in my case, it would be sufficient if lawyer would just dial scumbaggy employer, but none of them would do that, not even if I would agree to the fee of around 5 of my monthly salaries..

Just so you'll know ... 'real view from the street ...'

3 years 23 weeks ago
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Spiderboenz:

I happen to know a lawyer in Nanjing who almost exclusively handles cases like this. 

3 years 23 weeks ago
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icnif77:

Do you? Can you forward us Nanjing lawyer's contact details, pls?

OP might find it useful ...

 

Lawyer from Nanjing handles cases like this ...??

Can't you read? Issuing of Reference letter isn't mandatory! It is a bonus and employers can issue one or no at their own discretion and convenience!

@Spider, please show me where do you see case for the lawyer at this thread/OP's Q?

I know ... never mind, just so you'll know, I am not writing replies here out of my imagination like some ...!

 

I tried with lawyers in Guiyang and online, and that's what I got. The reason, I looked for the lawyer was:

" ... party A issued Termination notice after less than 3-months of work", despite I didn't commit any contract violations. None!

Their reasons for termination were 'classes are boring ...'; 'students sleep in the classroom ...'; and ... I don't remember the 3rd one.

However, school's management never warned me about it before the termination.

Everything was cool&dandy with my work at the school.

 

In real, School hired me for the enrolment purposes. There were 3 or 4 High schools in the city and one with the FT would get more students.

I wrote here about happening at that school at the time.

The thingy was, school demanded Native English speaker/teacher ... Now, imagine, you fly out of USA, Canada, UK, Oz, NZ, SA .., and get terminated after 3-months for no (party B's) contract violations. ??

I moved to Guiyang from Henan, but I still fought them to a tooth ... I even took a big part of return flight refund earlier, he he.

It was written in the contract that party B is permitted to be ill/miss the classes for no more than 10-days during the entire contract term and ... receive full pay.

I just stayed in bed & call-in on my 10 the most busiest days ... i.e. 'No more than ..', he he.

Later, I got SAFEA's support and I completed the contract, but didn't get return flight refund. Last SAFEA's reply was: "We cannot make school pay the refund!".

3 years 23 weeks ago
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3 years 23 weeks ago
 
Posts: 19790

Emperor

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... crickets ....

 

 Why did Spider turn into 'crickets' ...? surprise

 

I think, such change is called metamorphosis ...   

You better remember Dr, Lecter's from "The Silence ..."

 

 

I would really like to know your lawyer from Nanjing, who litigates contractual disputes ... 

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3 years 22 weeks ago
 
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Answer of the DayMORE >>
A:  "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "S
A: "... through ..."?  Only "through" comes to mind is "Shenzhen agent can connect you with an employer, who's authorized to hire waigouren ... and can sponsor Z visa." It's not like every 10th person you meet in Shenzhen's hood can sponsor work visa ...  The only way to change from student to labourer visa is just a regular way by: 1. Finding an employer, who'll apply for an Invitation letter; 2. Exit China and apply for Z visa in your home country's Chinese embassy; 3. Enter China in 30-days after Z visa was stamped into your travelling instrument ...As I am aware, you won't be able to switch to Working permit by remaining in China....,so make ready for a return to your home .... -- icnif77