Yes, illegal teachers may decrease wages but you could also argue that it increases wages for native speakers. 

I don't believe there is an oversupply, I believe that overall demand exceeds supply, but maybe not in Shanghai.

I don't believe more lax visa laws would increase the number of native teachers. The rules are already fairly lenient.

A substantial increase in wages, for example at universities, would increase the number of applicants and possibly improve quality however we know, for various reasons, that is quite unlikely.

Also, though this may sound scurrilous, most Chinese employers are completely uninterested in quality with respect to foreign teachers.

Just my 2 jiao ...

Never having done English teaching myself, I feel that my opinion is probably not fully formed and shouldn't matter much here. However, I would just like to thank Hulk for framing this argument so nicely here. I look forward to reading all of the responses.

Thumbs up hulk!

Salaries have to be paid from earnings, therefore if salaries are driven up so are the costs to the school / Uni etc. There is a limit to what people will pay, so I don't think illegal teachers drive down the salaries.

How to resolve your points about availability? Perhaps a two (or three) tier system, of visa / qualifications where lesser qualified teachers get to teach at the poorer end of the market.

What I would like to see is the requirements (for teachers) re-examined, being a native English speaker with a degree in Art does not, in my opinion, qualify you to teach English! I would demand that the degree is relevant i.e. in English, or that a PGCE equivalent teaching requirement (so 2 - 4 years teaching college NOT TEFL) is required, then if you wish to teach English you would not require an English degree but some English teaching qualification (in addition to the PGCE) e.g. CELTA / DELTA.

Bottom line though is the biggest problem in China, corruption means enforcement (of any rules current or proposed) is unlikely.

I have the same response to illegal workers in Aus. DO THE RIGHT THING. 

The government needs to be tougher on companies who are breaking the law and to not just teachers but to all people coming to China. A english database provided by the Chinese Gov for people to check if the company they intend on working for is actually licensed to hire foreigners in the province/municipality/Autonomous region. 

As for visas China should adopt visas similar to other countries such as working holiday visas, different tier visas (as Hugh pointed out) not just the one Z/working permit. For the teachers China can bring out a pre-entrance exam (that is only for China) to make sure they are qualified to teach in a class based on the grade they recieve high marks would go to the high end, lower pass mark will go to a lower end place.

i do not care. my "native english" status is a small part of what i bring to the classroom. what i bring to the classroom is competence, professionalism, integrity and a knack for teaching. 

what is going on in another classroom has nothing to do with me. i did not come to china to get rich. i am not obsessed with money. my salary does not determine my self worth, so i do not care about indirect outside influences on my salary. 

The problem is, yes, it does drive wages down (well, keeps them low). Knowing how tight-arse employers are here, anyone who works for a lower salary than someone else in a city, is automatically going to be used as an example, and a reason for every other place lowering its wages.

This is especially true for students and tourists wanting to earn some extra cash.

Also, such 'teachers' who have little qualification, experience, or skill give the industry a lower reputation. Ain't it interesting how English teaching is seen in one light, yet Engineering, Economics, Accounting, etc etc is seen in a different light.... IMO, much easier to understand and effectively use accounting after 4 years of study, than basically any language.

Non-native speakers can, in exceptional circumstances, be acceptable as English teachers.

First, they should be near-native speakers, with no discernible non-native accent. Second, they should have an IELTS score of at least 8.0 (or equivalent). Third, they should have completed a TESOL or TEFL qualification (depending on whether they had previous teaching experience or not).

The TESOL or TEFL should have given them the knowledge and understanding of the core and non-core features for mutual intelligibility of English as a Lingua Franca (ELF). For example, consonant sounds (except for substitution of 'th' and dark /l/) are essential for mutual intelligibility between the different varieties of English. However, vowel quality and word stress are not essential. If the TESOL or TEFL has not given these skills, it needs to be upgraded. These skills seem to be innate in native speakers, as demonstrated by Krashen's Monitor Theory, and Chomsky's LAD.

In my 10 years association with China, I have not met a single non-native speaker that satisfies these requirements. I have met quite a few in Australia and USA, but the industry standard in Australia is still for a native speaker.

Non-native speakers who attempt to teach skills they do not have and do not understand are setting their students up for failure. The students will not have mutual intelligibility when speaking with speakers of other varieties of English, or even with native speakers.

A prime example of this that I ran into was in a poor area of Chongqing, that had hired an African English teacher for three years. I had tremendous difficulty understanding them, and went back to basics - recite the alphabet. They recited the French alphabet, because that was what the French speaking African teacher knew, and that was what he had taught them. He had transferred his own unintelligible English to the students, over a three year period. The results were irreversible for most of the students.

This is compounded when the students are taught a mixture of bad habits from multiple non-natives with multiple accents and teaching multiple errors.

Teaching illegally is terrible in all of it's form. But, I would also have to say what about the school that is not helping the employed teacher obtain any documentations? 

I think in that regard you could say the school system or the one's running it don't care too much for the employed teacher. It's either that or they just don't care. 

If you are qualified that's great! I think everyone can bring something to the table. And people shouldn't always blame one person for the system failing. It's a work in progress just like every other thing that comes along. 

Youngest guy I've seen work here was a 19 year old kid with no college education. So there is nothing I haven't ever seen before. I saw a guy who thought Seaweed was an animal that eats meat. I saw a grown lady act like she was 3 years old. She was actually the interviewer and she was from China but you see what people have to work with...

I agree with elements of what various people here have said.

I'd love to see a proper study into the matter, but my gut instinct would be that unqualified teachers do in fact drive down everyone else's salary for the reasons that Shining Brow mentions. If someone's willing to work for less, he/she will be used as an example to keep wages low. More importantly, I suspect that given the choice between illegally and cheaply hiring an unqualified teacher, and taking the expense to hire a more highly qualified teacher, almost every Chinese school would go with the first option.

I agree with Hugh to some extent - I think wanting a PGCE (or equivalent, surely you don't expect us all to go study in the UK system, Hugh?) equivalent plus CELTA/Trinity is just  unworkable for China. But if language school/university employers demanded a relevant degree and a CELTA/Trinity then standards in language education China would immediately rise. To work in a cross-curricular context, i.e. to teach any subject in middle or high schools, then a degree or masters in education/equivalent should be required.

Traveler's demands for competent teachers are reasonable but I simply cannot agree that no non-natives are up to the task or that those that are are exceptionally unusual. I worked in Vietnam with a couple of Filipinos whose English was top notch - right down to intonation, complex clauses and a highly advanced use of idiomatic expressions. I'd have been deeply offended on their behalf if anyone suggested that because they weren't on the big 5 list they weren't competent.

Similarly, I teach in Australia now, and I work with a Bulgarian girl who has AMAZING English, native plus. Ditto for a technically non-native guy in the office, who grew up between his home and English speaking countries. With his passport he'd never get work in China, which would be China's loss.

Also, Pogger, I think you mean it's 300 million Chinese studying English. Good question, though.

I've been pondering this question overnight, it's a good one, (thanks Pogger), I've particularly been thinking about the supply and demand vis-a-vis visa requirement issue and while I am very well aware the Chinese authorities are unlikely even to read (let alone implement) these ideas here goes:-

I would propose a sliding scale visa system, based on qualifications and where you're allowed to work.

Standard A: Can work in any establishment: Minimum standards PGCE or equivalent, Relevant Degree or CELTA / DELTA or equivalent. Criminal Record check required from home nation. Native speakers or IELTS Level 8, visa upto 3 years. I would also apply this standard to those seeking to work with the very young, i.e. Kindergarten, not because of the language requirements but because of the teaching requirements.

Standard B: Can work in high school / LTC or lower. Minimum Standards 'A' level English or equivalent CELTA / DELTA or equivalent, Criminal Record Check, native speaker / IELTS 8. Visa up to one year.

Standard C: Can work in Junior HIgh / Primary school or Charity schools. Minimum Standards, Criminal Record Check 30 day TEFL.or better, native speaker or IELTS 7.5. Can teach for upto 90 days with written permission on a student or tourist visa.

Note: When I say where they can work I am thinking of the level of English they will be required to teach, I'm not trying to comment on the quality of such establishments, and yes, this is very much a 'back of the fag packet' idea, that I've really only partially thought through, so I very much welcome your comments.

Where does the person with a BA/BS and a 100 hour TEFL cert (not CELTA level) fit in?

Higher standards are laudable however I wonder where will they find the people to fill the positions? 

This is all rhetorical and or precatory but I wonder what compensation would be provided given the suggested stricter requirements? 

The Middle East have higher standards but they pay considerably more and, compared to China, require considerably less FTs to fill the positions.

We may criticise the Chinese but it's possible the standards are low because they require many FTs. It may be impossible to find a sufficient number of FTs with the suggested qualifications regardless of pay or other considerations. 

This is the problem I've faced: over 50 different high schools, middle schools, colleges and training centers (a mix of these) declining to hire me on the basis that I refuse to work without a Z visa. I've gotten in direct contact with these schools, and it's the same story every single time.

All the good schools are full on teachers.

I pass the Skype/QQ/Phone interviews with "flying colors," but they want me to go to the school now, and without a Z visa. They either say my Z visa will be processed by a company in another city at a later date (usually within 3-6 months), or I need to return home to get it. Return home and leave my wife -- who has bad anxiety problems, and lives in a constant state of fear due to recent events -- behind? I can't do that.

Suddenly, within a day's notice, "Sorry, this position has been filled." Apparently, the amount of illegal teachers is pretty high. They'd rather take an illegal teacher than someone with a bachelor's degree and a TEFL.

I've heard enough stories, and done enough homework to know that they never actually provide the Z visa. This is pretty much the worst time of the year to be looking for actual Z's, especially in places that require you to return home.

Do illegal teachers drive down wages? Or is it that some schools only have the money to employ illegal teachers.   I don't know, I'm not a teacher, I'm just wondering.    But in my opinion an illegal teacher certainly doesn't mean they're a bad teacher. There's a number of reasons why someone could have trouble getting a Z visa. With regards to wages, like I say I'm not a teacher so I don't know, but I would imagine companies willing to employ illegal teachers aren't worth working for anyway, and therefore are not really in a position to affect the whole industry because they're probably so small.  I think the people who complain about illegal teachers stealing their jobs are applying to the wrong type of school. 

I've written about this elsewhere, so I'm going cut and paste what I wrote then with a few alterations. 

1) They are liars. A type of professional licensure does exist for foreign teachers in China by virtue of the process by which we are issued our teaching, and working visas. When people agree to pay money to have a specific teacher teach them or their children they take it on good faith that the teacher has the minimum qualifications. If the teacher doesn't but takes their money anyway they are misrepresenting themselves. In terms of professional ethics, it is no different than pretending to be a doctor without having gone to medical school, or pretending to be a pilot without having a pilots license. That this person might be the best in the world when it comes to curing the sick or flying a plane is irrelevant as they are still committing fraud. 

2) Their poor behavior makes honest people look bad. Because nobody can tell how many foreign teachers are lying, every foreign teacher has to deal with a certain amount of suspicion. That there are many people from Africa or from the Middle East  teaching in China without the proper qualifications it makes it much more difficult for Africans or Middle Easterners with the proper qualifications or for people who are of African or Middle Eastern descent but are from European, North American, or Oceanic countries to find a job at a reputable school for the pay they frankly deserve.

This actually works against the Chinese educational system because it keeps good teachers out of good schools. Beyond that, the lack of trust in the system makes it nearly impossible native speakers of Asian decent to get a job. That hurts students that are going to study or live in the west because it deprives them of people that could tell them what its like to be Asian in one of those countries.

3) It really does depresses all of our wages. In economic terms there is a high demand for foreign teachers. That not only makes it easier for us to get jobs, but also means that we can demand a higher salary  from our employers. The fewer teachers there are, the higher  the remaining salaries become. As a greater number of foreign teachers enter the job market, our wages do drop, even if there is a surplus of demand.

Admittedly, this is a slight oversimplification, employers also have to offer relatively high salaries because they have to compete with schools and job opportunities that are in other countries. In any case, it means a higher number of people in the work force that are willing to accept lower pay. That is bad for me professionally. 

 I don't buy that an illegal teacher is all that these schools, and especially public schools can afford because of the hidden fees that regularly get paid to the school administrators. If a Chinese person wants to work at a public school as a teacher, they've got to pay the headmaster. If a student wants to attend a school, the parents need to pay an enrollment fee. The profit margins for these places are much, much higher than what they appear, or what you might expect. 

When I use to work has a teacher in China I had illegal teaching jobs and legal ones. Ironically in my experience I preferred to work illegally because it gave me more freedom and options.

At the end of the day I need to look out for myself and myself only. Especially in a country where schools have a reupation of taking advantage of you.

In my couple of years of teaching experience I had a LEGAL teaching job ended up being the one that caused the most problems. When I was working illegally I could just up and quit that job and never see or talk to them again.  When you have a legal working visa and a job ends up being really bad it suddenly becomes very very very hard to quit that job.

In my situation I ended up getting held hostage at a bad school/company because I had a legal visa. But when I worked illegally and a school turned out bad I had no problem quiting on my own terms 

While I don't advocate breaking laws, I do avice all new foreigners I meet to weigh out the options and do what's best for you. China is such a complicated place that there are many situations were working illegally is actually the more logical approach.  Don't blame foreigners for that, blame the Chinese job/visa/legal system for that.

I think the topic poster made a good point in a reality that if visa laws are more heavily enforced in the end it most likely would result in a shortage of teachers. Which would mean more money for legal teachers but in the en hurt a lot of children due to expensive tutitions their family couldn't afford.

The current situation isn't perfect but one benefit of it that I see is Teachers, Schools, and Parents have more options and choices when there is a system that basically openly allows both legal and illegal teacher. A situation that allows both skilled and unskille teachers. A situation that makes it easier for native speakers to work instead of harder.

For any highly trained teacher who feels like illegal teachers are hurting their salary too much....I advise you move to a country that pays higher.  Also lets be honest, it's not hard to find a teaching job that pays well in China so your complaints of not getting paid enough most likely aren't very valid.

The problem with English in China is that it is so top heavy on grammar, reading, and writing that little is left to actually speaking the language.  It is like Latin or Greek as taught in schools in Canada and the USA in a by-gone era.  My middle school students can write very well and their comprehension of English is on par with some of my American students when I worked at a high school there.

Students are bombarded with the minutiae of grammar that they spend half an hour to figure out what grammar structure to use when they want to say something; this is why English seems abysmal in China.  So many simpler ways exist for Chinese students to express themselves. I have been shown middle school tests and the answers they have to choose from.  Many times all the choices are right, but one choice is more correct than the others.

This native vs. non-native thing for teachers should not be based on nationality but ability. I've known native speakers who don't even know how to use their own language, let alone teach it.  This can apply to any language, including my mother tongue Spanish. Why should someone born in the U.S.A. have more of a chance to be a teacher than someone born somewhere else?  I've met plenty of horrible teachers from the "Big Five" countries here as well as good non-native teachers.  I myself am a Mexican working as an English teacher in China and my students do improve after I teach them. I came on a Z-Visa and am not an illegal, ha ha ha. Then again, I worked at an E.S.L department at an American high school in Oregon.  

In my opinion, minimum standards should be a T.E.F.L, an interview at a Chinese embassy, and two years teaching experience in their home country.