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Posts: 105

Governor

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Q: Anyone else feel they've become unintentionally critical of China?

I've had to listen to so many pompous, self-congratulatory speeches, so many media reports and individuals boasting about the glories of China and everything Chinese, that I feel I've unintentionally become very, very critical of China. Almost automatically so.

I see Chinese here asking "if you're always complaining, why not go home." It's a fair question, but I like to make my own opinion on things, and it's sometimes hard to do so here. Don't tell me how good the food is in China, let me taste it. Don't tell me how glorious your history is, otherwise I won't want to read about it. For God's sake stop telling me all about the wonderful progress the country's making, when there's SO MUCH that's still wrong. Let me discover these things on my own. Let me judge China for myself.

It's come to the point now where if any Chinese (including my own gf) extoll and praise the values of X part of Chinese society or culture, my first instinct is to find a flaw in their logic and criticize it. It's really unhealthy, and at times I feel like China deserves better.

Has anyone felt like they were unintentionally being pushed into reacting and thinking this way?

12 years 6 weeks ago in  General  - China

 
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Posts: 1932

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That's kind of my default mode now.

I'm actually a huge admirer of Chinese history, but after hearing speech after speech ("Chinese man most humble, you are so jealous of my extreme, unbelievable humility"), and having had so much backhanded "help" be forced on me ("This is a ____ (any object whatsoever). Do they have those in your foreigner country? I'll show you how to use it."), pretty much anything that comes out of my mouth any more is anti-Chinese, even though in my mind I'm not actually that anti-Chinese. I'm just used to being on the defense all the time.

I didn't move to China being like this. I came with the best and most positive of intentions and feeling. Over the years, the bitterness grew until I couldn't control it anymore.

MissA:

I think you need a holiday and a hug, but I don't know in what order...

12 years 6 weeks ago
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kchur:

Nah, a holiday just makes it worse when I come back.

12 years 6 weeks ago
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andrewabliss:

Wow, you said it best when you said that everything that comes out of your mouth is anti-chinese yet you don't consider yourself anti-chinese. I feel like shit cause for the past half a year or so I have been doing nothing but talking bad about China. I actually don't like to do it, I find myself complaining and think "god, it's so shitty that I am a guest here and complaining like this". I think the biggest issue stems from a lack of contentment in other areas. For me, I have a good degree, management experience, and speak mandarin better than 90% of foreigners, but my career isn't where I want it to be right now. And even though there's a girl that cares about me and an easy life right now, I'm still not content with my career. So... every time I hear some folks talking some kind of "crap" about foreigners or laughing about foreigners behind my back, or on the street, or at McD, etc. I just wanna confront them and give them a piece of my mind. I find I bitch to others about China alot, and it sucks, I wanna stop but it's usually unintentional complaining. What I can say is that I'm stuck in a city that I came to dislike, and in a job that lost it's thrill over half a year ago and I think that is what is really upsetting me. I say this because I just got an interview for a job back in Beijing with well over double my current salary and even though I don't have the job yet, I just realized that it has been three days with out a complaint on my part. 

 

I say hang in there and make a change to help yourself find satisfaction. Once you feel that the other things won't matter so  much.

12 years 5 weeks ago
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12 years 6 weeks ago
 
Posts: 2253

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When I came back to China after 2 weeks of vacation in Japan, that was definitely the lowest point of my life in China. I could honestly say I hated China at that time. I was staying with a student, where they had not finished building their new house and had not truly moved into it. I was sick, constantly cold, there was no heat of any kind, no hot water unless it was boiled and in a container. I accidently ate dog meat because she told me to stop asking what everything was and just try it, yet later she told me she would never eat dog meat. The internet was slow and unreliable, so I couldn't get on this site to vent. I couldn't help it, half of what came out of my mouth were complaints (the majority of that was me saying I was cold). The other half was me "stating the obvious" which I assumed she also took as complaints. We didn't go anywhere because she gets bus sick, so we only went into the city for a few hours one day, and I was there for a week and a half. We managed to get into an argument, which I do feel bad about now, but at the time I was really homesick. I decided to go back to my "home" city a week before school began. She even wrote me a note saying why she was happy I was leaving early and that all she wanted was to be with her mom and her cat. Although I am grateful to her and her family for allowing me to stay with them for that time, and the food was pretty good, I still regret going.

Here was a girl telling me "why don't you just go home if you hate it so much." How could she possibly understand when the only time she's ever been away from home is to go to college? How can I explain how complicated your dreams can be, that there can be a lot of difficulty despite it being what you want? I couldn't just stay home, and I can't just go home either. You can't go crying home to mommy every time life bullies you. 

I feel that now, I'm quite happy with my life. Two months have gone by, I've gotten comfortable living here again. I have heat or air conditioning if I need it. I have hot running water for a shower. There is more than one person I can talk to in English. I have decent internet (for the most part). Have I ever said how happy I am that this site is available? Now I almost never complain. I'm content.

I think that behavior comes from being unhappy with your situation. I still go through days when I wonder why I came here. There are still times where I question how China can be so heartless. I've had times where I said that some food was good, and the people with me have said, "This isn't good. You should try real Chinese food." I have not had other people tell me how great something about China is, except on rare occassions from students, and I just let it go.

I think it's especially easy to be critical because it sounds like they're saying it only because someone told them so, not because they thought of these things themselves. They have no reason to defend it because who would question it? In our home countries, we have been told that smart people ask questions, smart people get to the truth. This goes against what people in China have been taught. It can drive us mad to think that nobody questions even the silliest things, that there aren't any doubts at all. It just seems so fake, doesn't it? They say the good things, not the bad things. In my opinion, in order to see the whole picture, you have to see the good and the bad. So in our eyes, what they say is flawed, and it's easy to poke a hole in their logic.

The point of this story is that they're not using logic, they're using face. You can't argue with face. It's like a balloon: you can either help it to grow, or deflate it. But "winning" isn't really winning, however satisfying it can be for some. I say let them have their pride, you know what's really going on. Nod your head and smile. I've gotten much better at keeping my mouth shut. My advice is to come visit this site more often and vent to your hearts content. We understand.

MissA:

Yeah, this site is my therapy. It's saving me a lot in future bills!

12 years 6 weeks ago
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derek:

This is a great post. Enjoyed reading it a few times. That experience must've been hellish. I understand you fully as I had a similar experience a few years back.

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Posts: 93

Governor

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I do feel that way every now and then. It's an urge that's hard to resist, especially when you're being spoon fed this crap day in and day out.

 

But I think Jnubs said it best: nod, smile and don't say a thing. Keep going on with your life and make the best of your time and opportunities here.

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12 years 6 weeks ago
 
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Shifu

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For me, I love China in ways and am disgusted with it in other ways. The thing is, I'm not in my mother country so I have no real power to change the things I hate. Not to mention even the Chinese citizens have no real power.

But unintentionally critical, no way, it's purely intentional.

It is my one reason why I try to help people and come down hard on those saying or speaking about legalities in China.Visa this, have to be on a visa for that, please, you're in the land of corruption where everyone is out to make a buck especially off the foreigners.

If I was to quote every law written and unwritten in China, all of us would have reasons to be deported.

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Posts: 97

Governor

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The best way of getting out of this negative spiral when you hear people constantly praising China is first going half the distance and agreeing with them, then at the end, almost as an aside, criticizing a little. Or just pointing out that it's not all as beautiful as they think.

But then the common problem is that in the same way that we can sometimes be critical, Chinese are also very sensitive and defensive. Anything negative we can say can be misconstrued as "Oh God another foreigner who hates China"

It's tricky finding the right balance!

GuilinRaf:

Very true!

Look how WE get when we feel that we are being unfairly generalized! We get our dander up and all. 

That is why, when I am having a BCD, I  will vent only with fellow expats. If my Chinese friends ask me, I will just tell them that I had a bad day or if  they are particularly close, I may say I am having some "culture shock". No need to hurt their feelings since they cannot change the nations culture and sepecially if they just would not understand.

 

12 years 5 weeks ago
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12 years 6 weeks ago
 
Posts: 461

Shifu

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I fully congratulate all of you that despite the negative aspects of your daily life in China can still overcome them and remain in China.

 

It's been five years now that I'm in China, I've seen the worst of my life, the best part only remains my child. 

 

I have sincerely given up on this country. I feel so frustrated about the daily nonsense and absurdities that I see and hear, that I can't take it any longer. I decided to go home with my child and my Chinese wife will decide if she wants to join us or not.

 

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Like Techezee, my criticism is very intentional Smile

 

But, I also temper my criticism with honesty about the rest of the world... China hs its problems, other countries have theirs. When people around me hear this dual-sidedness, they're more willing to nod and accept it...

 

What is frustrating is, as Jnus said, the face element... if you criticise China to Chinese, they get very defensive. But, talk to them about political corruption, or the wealth gap, or unsafe food, and yes - they'll agree with you 100%... so, I think it depends on whether you 'attack', or whether you 'question'.

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Dude, every single day. I became extremely judgmental, and sometimes it just slips out.

I don't want to go on a rant, but they just keep on saying "WE, in china, [...]", talk like we're idiots, mix all foreign cultures into one big "waiguo" pot and pull out random facts, and won't shut the hell up about their "greatness".

Sure, they made a lot of progress, but god damn, do I have to hear about it every single day? Especially if I'm just taking a cab to go home after class, to I have to hear the driver tell me about the economical crisis in my country and the advances of China? Or in class, hearing stereotypes and, again, praising China? Or when I just have a drink? I genuinely don't care, but apparently that's no good reason to not hear about it. I swear 1/3 of my discussions with Chinese people was just mindless praising from their part. It's like a vuvuzela blowing right behind your head for infinity, first it's all fun and games, but then you just want to shove it down that person's throat...

So yeah, I don't mean to kill their buzz, but the criticism comes as a reflex now.

derek:

100% AGREE

12 years 5 weeks ago
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12 years 5 weeks ago
 
Posts: 7715

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Perhaps one can just ask them a question after they've raved... How's little YueYue in Guangzhou?

 

Nasty, but perhaps effective.

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12 years 5 weeks ago
 
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