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Q: Can you bargain on the amount of an asked dowry?
Her family may change their tune when they realize that me and my gf are more serious, but up until this point they have openly, and quite rudely, showed that they do not want us to marry. They are disrespectful to me, and the mother won't allow me to go to any family dinners/gatherings when I go to her hometown because she doesn't want people to see me and her daughter together in a serious relationship.
I feel that I am already giving her a better life, home, and future than what she could find in China, and she thinks so too. And more than that is that we are in love.
Why would I have to pay this dowry? If anything, they should be paying me for what I will be giving to their daughter/sister; even though I wouldn't want this or expect this.
I have also told the mother (via my gf) that she could live in my house whenever she wants, and as long as she wants, rent free of course, having her own room, bed, etc. in a nice house.
Should I pay the asked dowry? refuse, or bargain?
11 years 26 weeks ago in Relationships - China
I would suggest giving the family whatever you are comfortable giving them ........ in my mind, the dowry thing is BS, western thinking, ......... now though, I think it is OK, ..what the hell, you love her, you want her, she wants to be with you,
no bargaining, don't refuse , and give the in-laws some cash .......... your decision on how much..................... my guess is they will be happy.
There are a few things that yiu should know about the dowry, to be in a better bargaining position when the proper time comes.
First, the reason for the payment is to compensate the bride;s family for the lost of her daughter for the rest of their live, since in China bride leaves her family and joints the groom's family with marriage.
Now, is single (never married) and a virgin ?, If so, her family will truly expect dowry. But if she is divorced, then someone else compensated them already, and there is no need for one. But foreigners do not know better, and sometimes do pay even if bride is already divorced and with child.
You do not indicate amount requested, but nowdays and unless she comes from a very rich family, 5,000 to 10,000 yuan will be a reasonable amount for a never married, never used bride. Any request above that ill be an indication of greed. and / or a way to stop the marriage hoping you could not afford to pay. In today's China, many brides do marry without parent's intervention.
Yes, you can bargain, refuse, or whatever, but be very open and clear with your bride for the reasons of you doing so, so she will be on your side.
JungleLife:
Her mother asked for 20,000RMB, which is not that much in western ways, but a lot in Chinese.....that could take a Chinese person years to save that up. My gf has never been married but has been with 3 or 4 previous guys. I geuss I would just want my money to go toward our future etc., and not to someone who doesn't respect me or support our relationship. Thanks for the advice.
crimochina:
JL don't you see how this is degrading to women and your wife in especially. "she's been with 3 or 4 guys" i mean seriously wtf does that matter. if you want property , pay for it, if you want a wife, tell her family no way.
tauney:
"Never been used". ...what a disgusting way of putting it. Is this really a point to be argued with her parents? "Sorry, ma'am, your daughter is used merchandise, you have to knock the price down." *shudders*
I'd say to hell with paying a dowry or bride price or whatever. It's out-moded and basically a form of prostitution. The parents are just being racists, I think. Many Chinese couples I know didn't do this, or if they do, it was just a formality. The husband goes on the day of the wedding to collect the bride, and does give out some money to the family, but it's only about 2000rmb for the sake of tradition. Usually, the family is just happy to be seeing their daughter married!
My girl friends mother asked for 60,000 Y and she did not approve of me, never met me. It is my understanding that the amount is partly for show and that they (usually) give some back.
everything can be bargained with in China, however pick the battles that are worth fighting, this one might not be it.
You have to remember that your mother in law might not see it as a positive thing that you are giving her daughter the chance to live in Poland (or wherever)
What is your GFs stance on the dowry, how does she feel about being sold for petty cash ?
JungleLife:
My gf is very much influenced by her mother, my gf never sticks up for me or even bothers to explain things to her mom. What her mom says, I have to follow is how my gf sees it. I am actually Canadian, but Polish beer is my favourite. I would love to visit Poland.
Scandinavian:
that sounds pretty normal, children are brought up not to question things, especially not their mother. You should be prepared for, if you move to Canada with your GF, that the strong tie to her mother could break, simply due to the distance, time difference etc Your GF will need to learn how to cope on her own without constantly being told what to do by her mother. I think this is just a positive thing. I actually did the opposite, met my wife back home and have moved to China. Back home she was far more independent and resourceful, in China; if she right now had a serious accident and I would suggest going to the hospital, she would still call her mum to ask what to do before taking any advice from me.
My mother in law has never asked for anything financial, she only asks for influence... lots of it
Regarding beer. Poland does have some great beer. If you ever go to Poland, maybe you want to plan also going a trip to Prague, OK so it is a beautiful city, and it can be experienced while pub-crawling through some of the best beers in the world. Similarly, Munich also has great beer, the city is not that interesting though.
Maybe add Brussels to the list too.
Oh, when we got married the topic of a dowry never came up.
Oh, when we got married the topic of a dowry never came up.I don't know what they expected/asked ...my interpreter suggested 10 000RMB, if I remember correctly .... I came up with 8,888.88 because 8 is a lucky number, and that is what I gave my father-in-law. I really think it is/was not an issue, only an attempt to continue an old tradition............I didn't have to give them anything.............. now I am more than willing to help the family out as much as I can.
I did not pay for the wedding/reception stuff, which must have ate up more than the dowry, and I did not pay anything for her dad's funeral...... he died and went to heaven as soon as he got rid of her.
And "Holy Cow" worth every penny of it..........my wife was not a virgin, and is well trained in the art of satisfaction...... some day I want to meet her ex-husband, he may have been the original trainer...........a job well done!!
Interesting topic, will not comment due to no experience, but will strap on for updates, which I will read while having pop corn 
My gf's mom is asking nothing...she's cool, well i'll meet her this winter. 
I'll pay for a wedding back home (which is much cheaper than China)
and her mom will pay for one in her home town and pretty much get the money back
from hongbaos...My gf wants one thing - to do the fancy photo thing...which will suck
but its ok LOL 
The Bride Fee is seen as a vehicle of "face"...the more you pay, the more "face" the receiving family gets.
Yes, the Bride Fee is supposed to be for a virgin, a woman who'll "belong" to your family, a woman who'll bring more "face" to your family and thus, you pay compensation.
If she's not a virgin (in which case, too young to legally marry, anyway), is from a poorer "caste" than yourself, or in no way can possibly contribute to your material assets, then just offer a token contribution. 20K RMB is not an unreasonable sum. I know of families that are "auctioning off" their daughters to the highest bidders.
Bottom line, if you don't have your own apartment and car (the new "traditional requirement" for marriage) then a token payment (in cash or in kind) is okay.
I've said this time and time again. do not pay a dowry. if it becomes an issue walk away. there are plenty of women in china who would be happy to marry the man they love instead of being sold off by their parents.
Scandinavian:
dowry or no dowry, it is crazy that Chinese parents wants to dictate who their children marry, maybe it is a sideeffect of people not having freedom in their own life, apart from the freedom to make sure others don't either.
"Dowry" is what the bride's family pays to the groom.
"Bride price" is what the groom pays the father-in-law.
Scandinavian:
sorry to disturb with facts, but "dowry" goes both ways http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dowry
I didn't pay any dowry. And not being invited to family meals can be a good thing.
At that time, my future wife, was warned by me that I am not willing to pay any money to "buy her" and because we need those money much more for living in the city and for coming baby, rather than her parents can ever use in the village. I have explain, that in our culture, bride family is about to give the dowry , such as useful things - fridge, washmachine, cups or dishes and so on, anything what can be use in future life.
Than we have settle down, after many long talks, that we give to her parents 10.000rmb, just for giving a face. And that we'll buy the house in future, when we make enough money together.
But you know, in the village, every folk have asked them, how much they get from foreigner. so they lie about the amount a bit to keep a bit face. They have still keep the money. Time by time, we support them with any amount when we come for visit, with few hundreds or thousands.
But I heard from many people, various amounts, from 88.888rmb to 2 mil. rmb in shanghai. and of course, accompanied with house and car.
You have to pay anyway, but you decide how much. Follow and mix traditions of both of you, make your life easier.
Dont ask the parents..just ask the bride and go to the registrar to complete the procedure..if husband and wife are agree then what parents can do if they are disagree..
I agree with voltasingh above. Pogger, your thoughts are good for sure but what if, what if, the future spouses have no intention of ever settling in China? What if they plan to take the door to the West and live out their lives there? Why pay all of this hush money / blood money whatever just for face and then render yourself impoverished for months if not years on end? I am not sure on this but if they leave China, they don't need and will never need the hukou.
JungleLife. If you end up paying some thousands, remember it is cheap compared to what others pay http://beijingcream.com/2013/01/father-marries-off-daughter-with-dowry-exceeding-1-billion-yuan/
Well, my dear friend...I come from a Muslim country which makes me a Muslim. However, virgin or not virgin...When you marry a woman, she's entitled to a dowry and this dowry, you may give it to her as a gift..It could be in gold or cash money.. She decides what to do with it..She can keep it for herself or use it as investment in some business if she plans to.
When coming to China, they have a complete different meaning of dowry...Technilcally, as everyone has mentioned, it means to pay to the parents since you'll marry her off and take her away and a small financial support of the family will be gone missing therefore, an amount of money in terms of dowry is paid to replace and secure the parent's financial status whether she's from a rich family or poor.
Linguistically, I know it doesn't make sense to anyone but coming from an Islamic background, to us, it makes sense because we Muslims gift our bride either with gold or cash money in respect of gratitude.. It's her rights....if she demands a mountain of gold, then, I'm sure she has no intention of marrying you or anyone except pile up cash..lol!!
Try not to confuse yourself with what others are saying. I suggest you sit with your lady and ask her what if she wants as a dowry for her own benefit as a gift from you.. It could be in cash or even gold..Trust me friend. it works because I'm married to Chinese woman and I applied it.. Initially, the parents had a problem with it but once I made it clear to them that in my religion, dowry is entitled to the bride only and she decides what to do with it, they understood and respected that fact that it wasn't just a religious law but to them, it logically made sense.
Hope my suggestion would help you ease your problem and CONGRATS in advance..
PEACE!!!
