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Q: Can you truly understand China if you don't date/marry a Chinese person?
11 years 20 weeks ago in Relationships - China
I guess you could, but the process would be much more slower.
The fundamentals of any culture are forged during the childhood/adolescence and it is very hard to understand those experiences unless you have a very close relationship with a Chinese person that can explain it to you on a daily basis. Or unless you have lived in China since you were a kid, but I guess that is not the case
Of course! Take whatever you can grab. Stab everybody else in the back. Smile no matter what. Agree to everything, deliver on none of your promises. Act like a king and treat others like garbage. Believe that you are the most important person in the world and every one else exists only to serve you.
In short, get rid of every vestige of Judeo-Christian values that you may possess and you'll understand Chinese culture perfectly.
It won't make you a good person or bad person...it will just make your life easier in China.
Hugh.G.Rection:
I got rid of all my sanctimonious Judeo-Christian BS years ago, doesn't mean I can understand China fully.
God knows; i've been with my wife for seven years and I don't truly understand her, let alone China.
Not even then! I've been married coming up for 9 years and I don't even pretend to understand China! I can accept China (and their ways) but understand? No, I think you have to be born here, or live here a VERY long time and be absolutely fluent in Mandarin and the local dialect or dialects to have a hope of understanding.
Hey, you can understand the language, but it doesn't mean you'll understand the culture. Certainly, you'll still not be accepted.
We're talking culture here...lower yourself to their level then you have a chance of seeing eye-to-eye.
xinyuren:
Lower ourselves? I can't agree with you there. Do you really consider yourself better than them? It is quite likely that your own culture was similar to China's a century ago. Were your ancestors inferior? As long as you think this way, you will never understand China.
mArtiAn:
I'm with Xinuren on this, but then I guess that's kind of a given, right? In fact.......yeh..i've had these discussions before and they really never go anywhere.
Hugh.G.Rection:
Absolutely with xinyuren. There's a word for people who think they are superior to other peoples.
Yes, it is possible! As long as you learn to be humble and push on yourself to become so for sure you can learn to understand them. Of course that's a day-to-day lesson. Sometimes I make it but most of them I get lost. At least, I know it is possible indeed.You need to be patient with yourself and others.
To truly understand a culture, you must first learn to love the people. To love is to understand. Having a gf or wife to guide you is a great help, but If you can't really connect to the heart and soul of China, you can't hope to understand it. China's culture, like our own, is a culmination of centuries of history. Like our own culture, it can't be judged on face value. We must be willing to look at the "why" and not just the "what".
crimochina:
you are right, but it should be made clear loving people does not mean over looking their bad behavior.
No, no, no, and no.
Unless you are Chinese, you will never fully understand the culture. Why? Because no matter how good your Mandarin/local hua is, no matter how much baijiu you can drink, or Chunghuas you can smoke, you will ALWAYS be viewed as an outsider. ALWAYS.
To the Chinese, there are only 2 kinds of people. Chinese and NOT Chinese. Just like there are only 2 places in the whole world: China and NOT China. You will always be NOT Chinese, therefore it is impossible for you to assimilate into Chinese culture. You will always be watching it from the outside.You can understand it to an extent, maybe even a lot if you try, but you'll never be "part" of it. You'll never be able to fully understand it, because you will never be treated like you are part of it, which is the most essential part of "joining" or "knowing" a culture.
Anyway, after seeing Chinese culture, would you really want to assimilate into it?
Anyway, just to help you along in understanding the culture here: Think about how children act in a schoolyard. Calling a kid a name which will embarrass him for the rest of his life, "It wasn't me, Bobby did it!", Arguing over pointless things to see who is cooler or stronger. Cliques. Grouping for protection. Stealing other kids toys and denial that it was stolen. Big bully kid taking lunch money and telling weaker kids where they are allowed to eat lunch and play. Now apply that to everything you see everyday.
Suddenly, Face, lack of accountability, theft, stealing, scamming, social structure, "status", and everything else makes sense.
Granted, maybe there are more layers of complexity on top of that, but the basic principle is the same. People in China never grow out of that playground mindset and apply it to everyday life, where in the west, we abandon that as childish and focus on individual merit.
Not trying to sound condescending, but I'm sorry, it's a sound observation.
wildcat77:
I agree with you. been here for 6 years, having studied the language, interacted with and made tons of Chinese friends, I have come to the same conclusion. Chinese will always be Chinese, everyone else will remain an outsider, they are not willing to change, and not willing to accept anyone else to be part of their society and culture either.
mArtiAn:
It honestly sounds like people everywhere else to me. I was born in Haringay in North London, which according to a friend (no idea if it's true) has more languages spoken in it than any place in the world. I can certainly attest that it is a very multi-cultured place, but even within such a melting-pot community there are distinctly self-chosen pockets of disintegration. People like what is familiar and are afraid of what is different. All their fears get projected towards that difference. But as they get to know each other, as happens most significantly in the schoolyard, change occurs. China is very new to having a foreign influence within its borders, and will likely express fear towards it at some time as that influence becomes stronger, but that's the only way to cook a gumbo. Change rarely comes about overnight.
As for the schoolyard anology, I think it's a good one, but I also believe such selfish behaviour as is often found within Chinese society, is a product of the competition we are all taking part in as members of 'the rat race'. It's easy to live morally and exercise ethics and integrity in daily life and business dealings, etc, when one has money in pocket or a comfortable social service to fall back on, but there is much to fear from poverty and it is something far more real to the Chinese than we are used to experiencing in the west. I feel it would be unfair of me to be over-judgemental of those who stray beyond what I consider to be the borders of 'just' behaviour in their efforts to stay ahead of the game, as, without wishing to sound like too much of a twat, I have always been on one of the winning teams.
crimochina:
marty: you're full of it. i have extended family that lives in the uk. they emigrated there from cuba 3 generations ago. they are british. they are a welcomed part of the country, fully integrated. now, there will always be some knuckleheads. but in china, it starts from the very top, and if you dare stray from that , you're a traitor. and you will become an outcast.
i wont even begin to mention the usa, because usa is different from the uk, so again your "the same everywhere" fails
ccp propaganda: everywhere has the same problems as china. not true
Nope, you can't. I used to have nothing but awesome times in China... until I met Chinese girls, then everything just went downhill from there.
why try to understand it ...just go with it ......... China is an unbelievable experience ........ my family certainly doesn't understand what I am doing here .............. I'm loving it!!!
Getting to know a Chinese person intimately with grant you excellent insight into Chinese culture. You will learn first hand what Mr. Tibbles spoke about above as well as why most people here are the greatest conformers on the planet.
This is why they don't like to answer questions...because they have been taught all their lives they do not need to know things...don't ask questions and assimilate.
The 3 most common by far answers I get from my gf are..."No Why!!" and "But This Is China" and "Why do you ask too many questions!!!"
there are two things in the world that I will never completely understand: China and women.
mattsm84:
Why would you want to understand women? Women are the only people that understand women, and they hate each other. Better for us to let them stay a mystery.
Truly? Who knows? You may understand China sans marriage or girlfriends but they don't assimilate foreigners regardless.
Why do people think this culture is so hard to understand? It really isn't to anyone who pays attention.
i understand chinese culture, not because of my gf's but because of my true friends and their families. also by how others react when i am with them in public.
i understand chinese culture from dealing with my students and co-workers.
good and bad.
