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Q: Childbirth and China.
Life is full of crazy surprises and I got a big surprise recently. I'm going to be a dad... somehow.
Due to visa processing times I will most likely end up here in China for the childbirth. I would 100 percent rather have it in Australia but things only happen so quickly.
Do you trust the hospitals here?
Can I travel to a better city for the birth?
Money isn't a problem but how much is a trustworthy place?
Where is the best or most reliable?
I may seem ultra cynical but I am super sad to have this baby in China. I do not trust anyone in China to do their job right and most people aren't qualified to do anything. As far as I have seen.
I will most definitely leave china as soon as possible but there is just a waiting time on my partners immigration.
Can anyone share their experiences?
9 years 15 weeks ago in Family & Kids - China
i wrote a blog about our experience with the hospitals here, and my wife's struggle to get a natural birth after a horrendous c-section. unfortunately the blog was not approved due to alleged company names. even after editing every name out, it still wasn't approved. suffice to say, chinese doctors are a bunch of play-it-safe cowards, reccommending complicated procedures, over-perscribing TCM placebos, and withholding needed painkillers and medication. all to ensure the miracle of life is so traumatic for average-income households, that they wont want to go through it again. avoid if possible. brace for impact if unavoidable. pay through the nose if you have to.
ScotsAlan:
You should cut the names out and post the blog. Readers dont need names. They want to read your blog, not your allegations. As I said above, my wife had a miscarriage. At the time I thought the proposed treatment was awful. But I knew at the time the baby was gone. So did my wife. But my mil insisted we save her. She changed us from one hospital to another. My good mate Hotwater was ready to help out with the cash. We all knew the baby was gone. The doctors said so, we said so, the mil insisted money could cure. Nope. sorry Mil. That baby did not "set" in the womb. Babies are easy to make. We made another. Sometimes nature has precidence over the medics.
coineineagh:
There weren't any allegations, unless you mean about hospitals in general. And all names have been edited out long ago. But if it's of any use to them, I'll copy the text here: VBAC IN CHINA. I write this story to send back home by e-mail, as well as post in a blog online. VBAC (= Vaginal Birth After Cesarian) is a moderately risky procedure, because there is a 0.5% chance of uterine rupture and death of the mother. Most Chinese hospitals, in fact most hospitals in the world, advise against it, and can reject patients on the grounds of danger. But the problem in China is more serious, because many people in China, like my wife, are pressured into having a Cesarian section without realizing how damaging the operation is for their health. All these C-sections, just because it's easier, safer and more profitable for Chinese hospitals to do so. This story details my wife's struggle to get a natural birth, after having experienced the horrors of Cesarian section. It's not meant as professional advice or a how-to guide, just take the information for what it's worth.
royceH:
Hey Coin, you and your wife are great! Congratulations to you both.
Now......where's that darn daughter.....
coineineagh:
hah! i once mentioned expecting a daughter in one of my old blogs. should i blame the ultrasound or the doctor for "dropping the balls" on that one? No Andrea after all, to my wife's slight disappointment. We were both hoping for a daughter, but Andy's a great baby too. He has the sweetest smile. He's 7 months now, and 12kg! I call him my little piggy. He's vocal and merry, compared to Owen being physical and adventurous. Andy has barely even turned over, while Owen was walking independently at 9 months. Owen however, understands plenty in Chinese and English, but he's taking his sweet time with talking. Almost 2 years and saying mostly just Mama, Yu (chinese word for Fish), and the occasional Baba if he's feeling generous.
sunderlandt:
What an adventure. Thanks for sharing that, reading happy endings helps.
Best of luck to you guys!
dongbeiren:
Well-written and descriptive blog post Coin. I'm glad it worked out in the end for you.
The hospitals here are fine when it comes to delivering babies. We used a downtown GZ hospital and I think it cost about 15k RMB. But remember you need to be married to your partner because you need the baby permission book or they will turn you away. First hand, I have not heard any horror stories about child birth. But be warned.....having babies in China is most definately a woman thing. Her mum will want to be in the delivery room and you will end up feeling pushed out. But thats no problem.
Trusting hospital there => My wife had to go to hospitals for minor but annoying issues, the experience was consistently bad, until we found a Singapore-run hospital. More expensive to get a consultation, but it ends up cheaper than the 100% local hospitals because they don't over prescribe and they don't send you to X-ray/ultrasounds even for a sore throat... Overall, my own trust is very low.
Ho, and China is C-Section country, world highest rate of C-Section usage. "but Asian women are narrow" => yeah, right, then why they don't need more C-section than other women out of China ?
Travel to an other, better city => Reading the blogs of a few woman living in China, and who gave birth in China : *YES*, several did that (going to HK, or at least Shanghai).
How to know if the place is ok => Ask women (online) who gave births, where they went. Don't listen too much about what men says (I am a man ^^), I think it's the women who have to do the really hard part, and who can talk from 1st hand experience. Some samples (you have to type those in Google, need VeePeeN):
http://therealexpathousewivesofwuxi.blogspot.com/.../pregnant-in-china.html
https://mystrangefamily.wordpress.com/2011/.../pregnant-in-hong-kong/
I understand very well how you feel. We wish to have a child, but I pushed *a lot* to be in France when this is likely to happen : I want proper care for my family, with much less pollution. It's not cynism, it's being responsible and caring for your family.
ScotsAlan:
Yup Dr M, babies are a woman thing :-) But its also different from anything medically non standard. The baby doctors and nurses are doing the same thing day in day out. When it comes to babies they know what they are doing. I did have an unpleasant experience when the wife had a miscarriage, but I understand what was going on with that now.
well, I feel like I have to say this- I have been given Wonderful treatment at hospitals in SZ. Absolutely wonderful. Including surgery following an accident. I've witnessed professional treatment, equipment, and attitude. Basically saved my life and I am very thankful for their treatment, care, & concern.
* I am of the XY chromosome persuasion, so I'm pretty sure I'm not talking about childbirth
* sometimes some of the facilities do look 1970ish, but not all, and they still did a very good job for me
* I hate to say it, but I do believe that I was given somewhat special treatment being an American caucasoid (but all in all I think anyone would get proper treatment)
And, well, I feel like I have to say this.... I do not trust the medical system in China to perform at anything above the most basic of levels.
If your baby's birth is uncomplicated then you can get it done and get the hell out of there. (And don't be suckered into staying any longer in hospital than is necessary. ie; healthy, uncomplicated child birth = overnight in hospital.)
But, and I'm sorry to suggest it, if there happens to be some concern, for mother or baby, well good fkn luck!
I have had first hand experience of hospital procedure in China and it is 3rd world. I can say this based on the fact I have worked in hospitals for over 2 decades. More than 12 years in an operating theatre.
Trust me, the accepted practices here in China are 19th century.
Quite seriously, if it was my wife and I having a baby in China, I would arrange to be in the best hospital I could find. Pay the money. And I would have established a rapport with an obstetrician as early in the pregnancy as possible. And that rapport would involve a pact that, whatever the time of day, that obstetrician will commit to being at the delivery. A pact like that will involve cost, and I would be only too happy to pay it.
Otherwise the risk is run that whoever is on duty will manage the birth. And better than even money that that person wouldn't even get a look in at any 1st world obstetrics unit.
If you have to have the baby in China then start doing your homework now.
In the event of something not going quite right you should want to be somewhere where they can manage it.
And mate, good luck to you and your sweetheart!
Oh, one more thing, why not consider The Scotsman's advice?
First of all...Congrats to you.
My friends just had a baby this past December. We all live in a third tiered city, so it was a small hospital. It was the hospital's first foreign born baby they said. The doctors and nurses were very patient, polite and professional. Yes, they had to do the picture thing (selfies with the baby). But, the care and treatment was very good.
Due to the size of the baby and a tired mother, the child was born through a C-section. And, the baby was born with hypoxia (lack od oxygen). There was no real danger to the baby. The hospital placed the baby in an incubator for a few days to raise the oxygen level of the blood. The parents were able to stay in the room with the baby. And, when the baby was moved to the regular room with the parents, it was nothing but great service.
I will say this about delivering babies in China...who else has more experience? They have 1.35 billion people in China. One third of the world's population has been born in these hospitals. I think they are well prepared for most situations. Of course, there will be the negative expats on this forum that will say nothing good comes from China. But, I would not worry too much about having a baby in China, regardless of where you live.
And dont forget...this is the year of the sheep. Not a good year to have a baby for the Chinese. But excellent for us. The hospitals will be empty because of stupid superstition.
coineineagh:
if they're afraid of their kids becoming like sheep,i'd say it's too late already.
I've had three children born in China, one 12 years ago and twins just over five years ago.
I used the Sino-Japanese Friendship Hospital in Beijing for my first-born and GZ's #1 Provincial Hospital for my twins.
There's a lot of western clinics attached to hospitals that can offer you western-style deliveries. The one attached to the #1 Provincial hospital couldn't give me an estimate on delivery of my twins except to say, "40K RMB to 100K RMB minimum."
The #1 Hospital quoted 14K RMB but it ended up being 30K RMB.
Way back when, the Sino-Japanese Hospital was supposed to be 8K but it was closer to 20K RMB when all was said and done.
All deliveries were by c-section (first delivery was already +2 weeks overdue, the twins because my wife's water broke but there were no contractions five hours later).
Choice of hospital may also depend on whether or not you plan to register your baby as a foreign national or not. Keep in mind, for later, that the system does not allow for names longer than 14 characters in total so a long (multi-part) English name may present problems for registry for birth certificates/citizenship/passports later on.
The experience, personally, was hell for me. Not allowed in the delivery room, pay-as-you-go before you even hear about the health/condition of your wife and children, you've got to plan for and think of everything,
Anyhoo, it's a different and unique situation for each person. I've had my experiences, you'll have yours.
Im also having a kid and it will be born in China. We are in the process of finding a private hospital now. Looks like it will be some kind of VIP room with like a two bedroom apartment in the hospital! Balcony and kitchen and living room as well. Never heard of that but it was impressive. Facilities look much better than the public hospitals but im super worried about the staff being dumb.
As for the C section i was prepared to threaten them with death if they cut my wife just to make a profit. But my wife being from a C section country doesnt seem to be sooo against the idea. So its up to her i guess.
As for money im guessing around 30K plus more if they do the C section. Whatever it takes to make her comfortable and safe.
ScotsAlan:
Congtratulations Mr and Mrs Mike :-) Hoefully baby will inherit mum`s genes :-)
i wrote a blog about our experience with the hospitals here, and my wife's struggle to get a natural birth after a horrendous c-section. unfortunately the blog was not approved due to alleged company names. even after editing every name out, it still wasn't approved. suffice to say, chinese doctors are a bunch of play-it-safe cowards, reccommending complicated procedures, over-perscribing TCM placebos, and withholding needed painkillers and medication. all to ensure the miracle of life is so traumatic for average-income households, that they wont want to go through it again. avoid if possible. brace for impact if unavoidable. pay through the nose if you have to.
ScotsAlan:
You should cut the names out and post the blog. Readers dont need names. They want to read your blog, not your allegations. As I said above, my wife had a miscarriage. At the time I thought the proposed treatment was awful. But I knew at the time the baby was gone. So did my wife. But my mil insisted we save her. She changed us from one hospital to another. My good mate Hotwater was ready to help out with the cash. We all knew the baby was gone. The doctors said so, we said so, the mil insisted money could cure. Nope. sorry Mil. That baby did not "set" in the womb. Babies are easy to make. We made another. Sometimes nature has precidence over the medics.
coineineagh:
There weren't any allegations, unless you mean about hospitals in general. And all names have been edited out long ago. But if it's of any use to them, I'll copy the text here: VBAC IN CHINA. I write this story to send back home by e-mail, as well as post in a blog online. VBAC (= Vaginal Birth After Cesarian) is a moderately risky procedure, because there is a 0.5% chance of uterine rupture and death of the mother. Most Chinese hospitals, in fact most hospitals in the world, advise against it, and can reject patients on the grounds of danger. But the problem in China is more serious, because many people in China, like my wife, are pressured into having a Cesarian section without realizing how damaging the operation is for their health. All these C-sections, just because it's easier, safer and more profitable for Chinese hospitals to do so. This story details my wife's struggle to get a natural birth, after having experienced the horrors of Cesarian section. It's not meant as professional advice or a how-to guide, just take the information for what it's worth.
royceH:
Hey Coin, you and your wife are great! Congratulations to you both.
Now......where's that darn daughter.....
coineineagh:
hah! i once mentioned expecting a daughter in one of my old blogs. should i blame the ultrasound or the doctor for "dropping the balls" on that one? No Andrea after all, to my wife's slight disappointment. We were both hoping for a daughter, but Andy's a great baby too. He has the sweetest smile. He's 7 months now, and 12kg! I call him my little piggy. He's vocal and merry, compared to Owen being physical and adventurous. Andy has barely even turned over, while Owen was walking independently at 9 months. Owen however, understands plenty in Chinese and English, but he's taking his sweet time with talking. Almost 2 years and saying mostly just Mama, Yu (chinese word for Fish), and the occasional Baba if he's feeling generous.
sunderlandt:
What an adventure. Thanks for sharing that, reading happy endings helps.
Best of luck to you guys!
dongbeiren:
Well-written and descriptive blog post Coin. I'm glad it worked out in the end for you.
Thanks for the comments. That's why I still like this website, for the answers section.
Sometimes it seems like a propaganda machine but you guys are great. Thanks.
coineineagh:
Yeah, it is that too. But it's the only expat site that loads fast in China, so we're pretty much stuck with it. No disrespect for the staff; they do produce the occasional good article.
As a funny addition to this thread....
A UK mate got married to a Chinese woman last year. They had to get married, because the baby had been made. Intentionally of course.
Anyway, she wanted the baby to be born in the UK. She would not believe us when we said the baby could be born in China and would still be British.
So my mate went and spent a fortune on an agent to get his wife a spouse visa, and off they went, complete with an auntie, to have the baby in the UK.
Now get this. I am a Brit. And without a doubt the British National Health service is fantastic. And it's free too. For everyone.
But,.... my friends Chinese wife was not impressed. She could not understand why she could not pay for "extras". She could not understand why the medical staff wanted her to spend as little time in the hospital as possible. She thought she could go in as a VIP ( my mate has money) and be given extra special treatment. The care she got was great of course, but it blew her mind that all patients in UK NHS hospitals are treated equally.
Lol, I giggled about that. The irony of it.
As an additional note about the NHS. I remember a few years back the company sent a Chinese worker over to the UK to do some training. But the woman fell ill, and she was taken to hospital. Unfortunately, she had a miscarriage, and in the end was in the hospital for about a week. The company asked the hospital how much the bill was ( Chinese on UK business visas are not entitled to free health care). The hospital said, "Don't worry about that, just get the girl home to her husband".
Good news was that she did go on to have a cute healthy baby a few years later.
On yet another note, while I sing the praise for Chinese hospitals and medical staff for the giving birth part, no way would I trust a Chinese hospital to do an abortion. No way.
coineineagh:
Oh yeah. There's plenty stories in China of women unable to concieve after having an abortion. It's probably like this: "I'm a loyal Red Guard doctor, and I consider it my patriotic duty to gunk up the works while I'm in there, to promote One Child Policy."
In Zhuhai we have the Womens and Children hospital. This is where most want to go, and also where my child was born. It has a good reputation among the locals and most expats who've had children seem to also have used it.
The doc that we saw throughout the pregnancy was a cold bitch. We've been there when the girl in queue in front of us got told "no heartbeat, goodbye" she looked like she was in second trimester.
The same doc also overprescribed tests. And a lot of the tests are BS, e.g. there is one where, for the last 6 weeks of pregnancy the pregnant woman has to go each week to lie in a room with electrodes on the belly.
The hospital did not offer any relevant tests for early detection of down syndrome, they did get blood samples from both of us for a genetic issue that, after some research, I found is not relevant if one parent is Caucasian. E.g. a nuchal translucency scan is not part of the default test. Look up what it is for, and you know you'll want it. We spent a lot of time chasing around several hospitals to find a ultrasound technician who knew what to do, thanks to our super doc we didn't look in the hospital we were already in as she said it couldn't be done there. It could.
Delivery. Well, the hospital got a lot better. The staff was more professional, no chaos in that section of the hospital, and the post delivery expirience was even better, that section had nurses that actually looked like they like children, and they spent time in talking to us and helping with getting going in the parenting game (note other comments by me on Chinese parenting) Apart from one nurse who ridiculed me in front of 20 peeps because I claimed that it was wrong to put a baby on its back, always facing up (makes the back of the head flat, it is only an aesthetical issue)
Anyway. Ask around. Get other peoples experiences from the local hospitals.
Hotwater:
Go on then - provide proof of your allegation or an apology to the OP for slander.
Strawberry66:
Aplogize?Lol.Why would I need to prove as I have got already approched by the two guys?
It's a good warnning to do good things for other girls.
What made you hilarious think to lie about it to humilate these two guys?coineineagh:
Then what's to stop this cunt from claiming I contacted her? Which I didn't. I'm a father of 2, and need to know my reputation is not this easily tarnished on the internet. Ban the b*tch.
Strawberry66:
Your stupility to not trust what i said will only make the two guys do more bad things on girls on ecc.
I believe a voice of mine will still do save some girls but it needs more voice.coineineagh:
Chinese person online says: "Trust my words without evidence." This is ECC, not BaiDu.
Strawberry66:
I am not gonna search a lot to get the message this guy sent to me.Plus I deleted lordhanson's messages to me.
I don't really need to make you believe.But my words will be a warning for the girls to be more careful here.Which is enough for me to tell the truth here.
Strawberry66:
Lordhanson,the british guy told me that he was looking for a wife and he was single,then only a few monthes latter after we stopped talking to each other on wechat(like after 4 monthes or something),then he post on line for getting visa for his wife and son.lol.
This guy told me that he wanted to meet me and he said he was interested in knowing me.Then like only a few monthes latter(like 2 monthes or something),now he post that he has a partner and has an unborn child)
Wtf.You tell me what is going on?
Strawberry66:
I have no reason to lie.What can I get?Gain face?Are you misleaded by Chinese culture to think people tell the truth is gainning face?
For people who called me bad name and told me to shut up.You own an apologize,you have no right to call me bad name.You have no idea what I had been going through.And I am just doing a good thing to tell the truth to save other girls from them.coineineagh:
Provide a screenshot of your mailbox with the alleged Private Message, and I'll happily apologize. If not, you're just throwing mud at a user who hasn't commented on this site for over 3 weeks. I happen to like this thread, because one of the comments has my blog post of my kids' birth in it. Your accusation makes a good thread look dirty.
dokken:
<p>If she's telling the truth then these guys are rats. if she is not then she herself is a rat. It's a random and terrible accusation to make unless there is some truth to it. I don't know how men could ever cheat on their pregnant wives. Horrible</p>
Strawberry66:
This guy just sent me message recently for wanting to meet me up in Shanghai.I called him bad name.
Wow, prices in these cities are awesome. We looked at Beijing where we know several people who have given birth. We were quoted 40-60k for natural birth (at Chinese hospitals). A c-section was 60-120k, but apparently you could get a 40% discount if you booked it 6 months in advance.
my colleague, who is western, told me that they gave out many red envelopes for extras, such as private room and better service. In the end, I went home to deliver, spent 4 days in the hospital and paid about 4k + flight tickets.
coineineagh:
Yes, Chinese like to buy dinner for the birth doctor when registering at the hospital. It establishes a rapport. My wife had a nursing background, so she could get echos done in exchange for gifts like a box of milk. Still, bribes aside, you should assess the quality of the hospital first. Otherwise, you're hongbao are wasted, because they can't provide professionalism if they have none.
<p>It is now 5 years ago, we have paid some 6K+ for delivery by C-section in Yiwu, Zhejiang. it included all the "care" ( they included each temperature measurnment and pushing the belly for releasing more blood by 5rmb, washing the newborn and so on ) food you have to bring yourself and so all the things. We received just one set of cotton clothing for newborn from hospital, for free. So I was day and night with my wife, cared about them, drive motorbike back home, cooked food, arrange work in office to staffs and back to hospital, changed diapers for son and tissues for wife... Yeah, It was great experience, I can do that all myself, while woman on beside bed has complete family members doing each only one part of job and always busy there and loudly.</p><p> </p><p> So it can be in affordable budged, and relatively clean and safe. we no need register the space, but it come with the need of waiting with bags in hands to delivery finished and only then we was send to free bed. In cities it will be necesity to register room or bed long time in advance. China many people. </p>
xinyuren:
<p>I did this twice. Me and my MIL were a tag team. I had night shift and she had the days. It was tiring, but I wouldn't do it any different.</p>
Well,now I have to write another statement for this guy and Lord-handson.I talked with both of them.They told me they didn't cheat on their wife and partner,they just disliked me and one guy just wanted to make sure if I am real.So they set a trick on me to pretend to be interested in me.
I am not sure if they are telling the truth or not.But I choose to believe what the two guys said are true.If they lied to me,then it's their own problem to be failed as a decent human being.I tried to trust people are good and give people chance.
I just want to tell them to talk with me directly if they have some opinion on me rather than playing those childish game with me.
I am a decent lady,I want to write it down for them to not get judged badly for what i wrote about them before.
coineineagh:
Yes, one big protracted scene. And the only thing that is certain after all is said and done, is that you love attention, and people are tired of attention-seekers.