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Q: Do *some* chinese people consider themselves human?
My previous question of this nature was harmonised for making someone feel insecure about their culture.
It has now been rephrased to ask, do some chinese people think they are different from homo sapiens sapiens or that they are homo sapiens sapiens and we are something else?
I think the word you are looking for is Polygenism"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygenism
This is the theory that different "races" of people evolved separately, and that we did not all come out of Africa, which is the current theory of our evolution.
The problem with polygenism is it's historical use. It was used by slave owners to justify keeping slaves, it was used by nazis to justify their genocide of the Jews and so on. It is a theory that tends to be used by extremists to justify their views.
So, it's a concept that has connections to political ideology. And trying to fit science to fit a political ideology is never a good idea.
Lot's of people in China believe Chinese evolved differently, so effectively, lots of people in China believe in polygenism. It certainly seems to be a theory that the Chinese Government puts a lot of money into researching.
So that's not a good combination. A historically insular country, an ideologal Government and a theory of separate human evolution. Looks bad on the surface.
But actually, research into evolution is something Chinese scientists are very good at. They are world leaders at it.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22329813.000-human-exodus-may-hav...
http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/27104.aspx
So what possibly started out as research into proving Chinese are different, has actually produced solid science that challenges the mainstream. A decade ago the mainstream thought Neanderthals had died out. Now in the last few years scientists have discovered we have Neanderthal DNA in us. Chinese scientists were involved in that discovery.
Yup, Chinese scientists are very good at this evolution thing.
My take on this? Leave it to the scientists. They work together as a world wide team.
What worries me more than people believing in polygenisim is this:
http://news.yahoo.com/walker-meets-british-finance-minister-london-16163...
Shocking. A man who want's to be leader of the free world refuses to say wither he believes in evololution or not. Utterly Amazing. This man wants to have control of the biggest Military ever known, and he won't say if he believes in evolution. That to me makes him a religious radical. A creationist.
And he is not alone. Look at the whole subject of teaching evolution in American schools. A contentious issue to say the least.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_and_evolution_in_public_education...
Quote ( from 2001): "16% believe public schools should teach creation only"
In a global context, that quote above worries me much more than Chinese thinking their bodies are different. Believing you can't drink cold water is unlikely to start a war. Believing your God is the best God is not a good sign for a peaceful future.
Shining_brow:
I'm not an archeologist or anthropologist, however I do employ logic!
Let's look at human migration patterns in current society... in/from my country, there are about 24 million people. Of those 24 million, I'll guestimate that about 90% or more will live and die there. Maybe 25% will travel overseas at some point in their lives, and of those, obviously, the majority will return. Of the current population, maybe 12%-25% are from an Asian background. Of the Chinese descent, perhaps 10%. So, 2.4 million people. And yet, that number is a very small percentage of Chinese - 1.6 billion. How many of them are 'pure-bred'? And how many come from a mixed-race family? How many 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants will be 'pure-breed'?
100,000 years from now, if anthropologists were to go digging up remains, what would the find? A small percentage of people don't fit the 'norm'. and, in my country, 'norm' is going to be hard to define...
So, what I'm saying is: it would be silly to think that there are nice clear-cut divisions of migration patterns and species in our history...
100,000 years ago. out of 5000 people in an area, 20 decide to go for a walk a few hundred miles. Then stop, have kids, and 20 years later, another 15 decide to go for a walk further away, etc etc etc....Sometimes on their journeys they met similar, but different, people...and sometimes - whether through choice or not - inter-breeding took place. And the moving continued.
Unless there were external forces at work (environmental, natural etc), those migrations are the outliers... not the norm!
ScotsAlan:
I am not a scientist either Shining Brow, and I agree with what you say.
Human evolution and migration in an incredibly complex thing.
What I am trying to say is that Chinese scientists are very very good at unraveling our evolution. Their skill and expertese is something that China can be proud of.
It's unfortunate that some sectors of the press jump on their discoveries and use it for political reasons. Wither there is or is not an ideological aspect to the work the scientists do.... I don't know.
Can we ask admin to cut and paste my previous answers from yesterday here 
fada:
It was a fine answer and genuinely added a lot of legitimacy to the question, as opposed to dokken and the native.
I think the word you are looking for is Polygenism"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygenism
This is the theory that different "races" of people evolved separately, and that we did not all come out of Africa, which is the current theory of our evolution.
The problem with polygenism is it's historical use. It was used by slave owners to justify keeping slaves, it was used by nazis to justify their genocide of the Jews and so on. It is a theory that tends to be used by extremists to justify their views.
So, it's a concept that has connections to political ideology. And trying to fit science to fit a political ideology is never a good idea.
Lot's of people in China believe Chinese evolved differently, so effectively, lots of people in China believe in polygenism. It certainly seems to be a theory that the Chinese Government puts a lot of money into researching.
So that's not a good combination. A historically insular country, an ideologal Government and a theory of separate human evolution. Looks bad on the surface.
But actually, research into evolution is something Chinese scientists are very good at. They are world leaders at it.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22329813.000-human-exodus-may-hav...
http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/27104.aspx
So what possibly started out as research into proving Chinese are different, has actually produced solid science that challenges the mainstream. A decade ago the mainstream thought Neanderthals had died out. Now in the last few years scientists have discovered we have Neanderthal DNA in us. Chinese scientists were involved in that discovery.
Yup, Chinese scientists are very good at this evolution thing.
My take on this? Leave it to the scientists. They work together as a world wide team.
What worries me more than people believing in polygenisim is this:
http://news.yahoo.com/walker-meets-british-finance-minister-london-16163...
Shocking. A man who want's to be leader of the free world refuses to say wither he believes in evololution or not. Utterly Amazing. This man wants to have control of the biggest Military ever known, and he won't say if he believes in evolution. That to me makes him a religious radical. A creationist.
And he is not alone. Look at the whole subject of teaching evolution in American schools. A contentious issue to say the least.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_and_evolution_in_public_education...
Quote ( from 2001): "16% believe public schools should teach creation only"
In a global context, that quote above worries me much more than Chinese thinking their bodies are different. Believing you can't drink cold water is unlikely to start a war. Believing your God is the best God is not a good sign for a peaceful future.
Shining_brow:
I'm not an archeologist or anthropologist, however I do employ logic!
Let's look at human migration patterns in current society... in/from my country, there are about 24 million people. Of those 24 million, I'll guestimate that about 90% or more will live and die there. Maybe 25% will travel overseas at some point in their lives, and of those, obviously, the majority will return. Of the current population, maybe 12%-25% are from an Asian background. Of the Chinese descent, perhaps 10%. So, 2.4 million people. And yet, that number is a very small percentage of Chinese - 1.6 billion. How many of them are 'pure-bred'? And how many come from a mixed-race family? How many 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants will be 'pure-breed'?
100,000 years from now, if anthropologists were to go digging up remains, what would the find? A small percentage of people don't fit the 'norm'. and, in my country, 'norm' is going to be hard to define...
So, what I'm saying is: it would be silly to think that there are nice clear-cut divisions of migration patterns and species in our history...
100,000 years ago. out of 5000 people in an area, 20 decide to go for a walk a few hundred miles. Then stop, have kids, and 20 years later, another 15 decide to go for a walk further away, etc etc etc....Sometimes on their journeys they met similar, but different, people...and sometimes - whether through choice or not - inter-breeding took place. And the moving continued.
Unless there were external forces at work (environmental, natural etc), those migrations are the outliers... not the norm!
ScotsAlan:
I am not a scientist either Shining Brow, and I agree with what you say.
Human evolution and migration in an incredibly complex thing.
What I am trying to say is that Chinese scientists are very very good at unraveling our evolution. Their skill and expertese is something that China can be proud of.
It's unfortunate that some sectors of the press jump on their discoveries and use it for political reasons. Wither there is or is not an ideological aspect to the work the scientists do.... I don't know.
The Japanese during WW11 considered all none Japanese to be barbarians. In the end it was the Japanese that were barbarians. Fortunately since then they have changed dramatically.The Chinese people I have met and that is many, feel about themselves just the same as you and me.
While we are talking about gods and creation. First there is no way we were created. We evolved by natural selection.I asked the local pastor. Do you believe in Adam and Eve? Yes says the pastor. Also god created Adam first, yes says the pastor. Then why did god give Adam nipples? The only reason we are here is because the earth has water in abundance, the earth is the right distance from our very stable star They have found another planet that is the same size as our planet, it has water and is the right distance from a sun like ours. Unfortunately it is 1400 light years away. This would indicate that life of any kind is very very rear in the cosmos. Is there really a god? I would be glad to go into this question but I would offend too many people.
Shining_brow:
I disagree with your concept of 'rare' (rear).
Given the vast distances we're talking about on the size of the universe, 1400 light years is relatively close.
Another thing to consider - We're on the outer edges of a galaxy. So, firstly, the chances of finding life closer to us are lessened just because of that last fact - we're not in the denser parts of this galaxy.
Secondly, our own planet has only been around for around 4.5 billion years, descended from the remains of a 2nd hand star. Humans have been around for only about 1 million years - a drop in the cosmic time bucket. Life hasn't been around long either. And the main reason for this is the almost total destruction of all life on this planet - twice! We haven't had a global catastrophic event for quite a while. And.. look at the advancements we've made in the last 1000 years alone. On the cosmic clock, that last 1000 years is incredibly tiny... 10,000 years is tiny.
So, just imagine a planet which didn't have a global life-wiping out catastrophe as recently as ours... a life (vaguely similar to our own evolution) that has an extra 10,000 years on the clock... where are they now? What have they done? How many other worlds have they colonised? And, once they've hit the stars, how distant have they travelled?
We don't need to be that close... we just need time!
Oh, as for a discussion of god... remember, there are many different concepts of what such a 'god' thing is... those offended would only be those unwilling to see a different perspective from their own rigid, unthinking viewpoint.. and thus, who cares if they're offended!
Just search "eugenics". You will find that some people are more intellegent than others, thanks to their genes. We are being fed with Politically Correct BS that all men are created equal.
coineineagh:
It's not BS. The value of equality is most productive for our race at this time in social evolution. If we accept the truth of people having unequal skills, we quickly become megalomanic and blame percieved 'lessers' of all the wrongs in society. We are not wise enough to handle accurate information responsibly, so we should be happy with the BS. In short, without some BS to counter our own BS-amplifying tendencies, we would soon be knee deep in our own manufactured BS.
