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Q: Do you think your home country should treat Chinese migrants the same as China treats us?
Simple question. I'm pissed off. We let lots of people into New Zealand and they're absolutely welcome. In fact I'd go so far as to say for every good immigrant we get into NZ, we should be able to kick out one P addicted mongrel mobster, wife beating DB swilling alky or a silly slapper who keeps pushing out heads on the state's dime.
Every year I have to renew my visa. I've just found out my employer (who sucks) is only beginning to consider whether or not they should hire me again or get a new foreigner. I told them I'm off and I've got an offer. That's never a problem, let me assure you. As a native speaker with an English degree they'd be fools to consider trying out the agency which can only supply twenty two year olds who're too hungover to come to class every second day. Well from their acumen I can only conclude that they are indeed fools, just like 90% of the administrators working in the field of education in this country.
The problem is that my visa expires in early July and I've got to get the paperwork put through in haste because the silly buggers I'm currently working for have only decided now to go through the process of deciding whether to renew my contract. The only reason I thought to stay where I currently am is due to my acknowledgement that education all over China is a joke, so I'm applying Chinese thinking and taking stability over minor risk. Well no more, thankfully.
I've contributed a lot to the country and my activities have led to some guanxied up baichis keeping the lion's share of the finances which have flowed in as a result of the endeavours which only I specifically can provide, by that I mean no-one with my education would be daft enough to come to a city like Shi(t)jiazhuang.
Without me, there's no cashflow, but I'm given the crumbs while some old fool who couldn't run a raffle keeps somewhere between 60% to 80% of the money paid by the parents. We can cease to wonder how "unemployed" twenty year olds are able to write off ferraris and lamborghinis in tunnels when we consider this. The kids of these old fools have simply inherited their parents' skill sets and meagre IQ, but aren't yet old enough to be a bottomfeeding kingpin, so they've got to pigou around for a few years until they get their grey pubes which are the sole means by which they can obtain the gravitas necessary to be a zhonguo laoban.
These people treat foreigners and their local employees like absolute merde. My hope is that enough people who've been here take their experiences home with them and obtain some kind of influence to inflict on these clowns what they've inflicted on us, namely annual registration at the post office and the threat of visa cancellation, confiscation of assets such as housing and land, deportation and an indefinite blacklisting from re-entering the country. In other words, tit for tat. What do we currently do? "Oh, you're a millionaire and you made your fortune by exploiting your own people and scheisen machen in your own proverbial nest! Welcome in, you job-creating captain of industry!"
I don't know why they think they can treat us so poorly when our countries treat them so well.
9 years 5 weeks ago in Business & Jobs - China
Totally agree. The more we comment on this subject on here the more chance of someone noticing it. The whole concept of "foreign experts" goes back to the days of China buying cement and steel factories from the USSR. Mao fell out with the USSR because of the secret speach. The experts had to leave.
Our status is a legacy of that era. We are basically here as guests. To be excluded on a political whim. China needs to get with the time if it wants to be seen as a world leader. For every foreigner living illegally in China, there are thousands of Chinese living legally abroad. We need to keep telling people this.
(edited for spelling)
Your Visa or Residence permit expire in July?
If RP, you'll get 30-days L or 30-days RP extension a week before RP expiration.
Purpose of 30-days extension is given time for traveling and exiting China, or giving enough time to your new employer to get new FEC, complete Medical exam, and 'new Contract length RP extension'.
30-days L is Chinese law requirement.
I'd say, you should sign new (or re-sign old) Contract, and travel to the new city as soon as you'll get passport back with 30-days extension.
You'll need Release letter and FEC Cancel Cert. from present job for RP extension.
My biggest problem is Chinese employer can't tell me about 'yes' or 'no' Contract renewal earlier than 2 weeks before Contract expiration.
Best in my opinion is to disregard re-signing/extending Contract at the same school, and look for the new position early enough.
I'm Non, so I need at least 60 days to find new job, but probably Natives can get new job faster.
laowaigentleman:
I'm ok. I have a lot of offers, but I was given a tip off from a parent who said a message went out saying the school was looking for a new foreign teacher. If she hadn't told me, I could have been left waiting for too long to be able to change over in time. I've got enough time now, thanks to her.
The school even asked the parents if they knew any foreigners!
"Yeah, I know this bloke who's always at the dive bar. Passes out in front of our apartment complex's driveway every three days or so and wets himself around 6.30am when he breaks out of his comatose state and tries to stand up."
They sell "education" here the same way they sell infant milk powder or tacky Levi and Chanel knockoffs.
About 80% of the parents at this school are cashed up farmers who moved to the big smoke and bought a black audi - incidentally with all of the money they were given by the developer for the land, meaning they're only asset rich and love to haggle over the hourly price of English lessons for their loud, obnoxious, simple minded brats with the attention span of... (well what's a more fitting analogy than a spoilt Chinese kid with some kind of electronic device in his hands?) while their porsche is sitting in front of the school with three "business associates" spitting out the window of it and dropping fag ash all through the interior.
The other 20% have been educated abroad and many of them fit Dongbeiren's description of a new rising class of actual elites. These people despise the agencies and the "we need to get a new dancing white monkey every year to maintain some sort of perception of novelty in front of these peasants" mantra of school administrators.
Not that they'll ever do anything about it, but one of them has complained to the farmer masquerading as a headmaster about how her son's manners deteriorated significantly since he returned from the USA and was exposed to the behaviour of your typical tuhao brat over here. It helped me a lot when I was arguing with the staff about how disgusting the manners of the children I have to try and teach are.
Totally agree. The more we comment on this subject on here the more chance of someone noticing it. The whole concept of "foreign experts" goes back to the days of China buying cement and steel factories from the USSR. Mao fell out with the USSR because of the secret speach. The experts had to leave.
Our status is a legacy of that era. We are basically here as guests. To be excluded on a political whim. China needs to get with the time if it wants to be seen as a world leader. For every foreigner living illegally in China, there are thousands of Chinese living legally abroad. We need to keep telling people this.
(edited for spelling)
Interesting notion. I bet many Chinese people think they treat us too well, but don't understand the reverse situation of living in our country. Most Chinese don't understand the down side to being a foreigner in China and think that because we make more than them... then the circumstances are unfair towards Chinese.
It's definitely not equal at all... but then again... if you only had a high school degree (and some ESL teachers don't even have that) from China there is not way you can make an above average income in the West unless you get lucky doing your own thing.
I guess it is all about perspective and a person's plans about interaction with China/Chinese.
It WOULD be nice if China would stop screwing around and allow dual citizenship and residency to long term expats. But xenophobic China is backwards.
ScotsAlan:
Chinese dont need a degree to go abroad. The UK visa form is all about how much money you have. Not a whisper about having a degree.
laowaigentleman:
@scots
My girlfriend will try for residency soon with the intention of applying for a place on a bachelor of nursing program in NZ. A degree isn't a pre-requisite for residency, all I have to show is that I can support her, but if she wants to study and has no degree, she's almost guaranteed to be declined entry to any degree course.
Having said that, mainland degrees are simply ludicrous if you've ever taught in a university in this country.
They should streamline all the different majors and let everyone graduate with a Bachelor of Sleep.
ScotsAlan:
Yup. UK is the same. They have to prove they can support themselves.
I stopped swimming upstream many years ago.
I play the game, push them to dead ends, no escape.
I build connections with the wealthy and powerful ones.
I am the cash magnet, I leave and so does their money.
I position myself as the middle man, I parasite their stream.
I am being hated, but they are powerless, their business is me.
ScotsAlan:
Have an upvote. You speak the truth. Too many people tell lies to get here with no repircussions. But to lie to go there is seen as a massive sin. You are a capatalist in a capatalist world. Good luck to you if you make money from being a conduit. You are providing a service much in demand. That is the definition of capatalism.
laowaigentleman:
Have one from me too. I've got dickheads voting down my posts all the time too.
Eorthisio:
Well, I am not angry against insecure Chinese boys downvoting me, also I don't care about virtual points and they are right to hate me for making more money than them in their country (and being infinitely more successful with the ladies), as the saying goes "haters gonna hate" haha.
Find a place where you're appreciated.
laowaigentleman:
Put it this way, the parents of the children I teach are enormously appreciative of my efforts, but they aren't school managers. The school managers are in their mid-fifties, getting ready to retire and their formative years were spent hiding in a hole from Mao Zedong and scrounging mantous from the local farmers.
They transferred these skills and experience to the field of education in the 21st century with the ridiculous results I've described above.
No, they shouldn't because two wrongs don't make a right.
laowaigentleman:
Fair enough, but it seems to me that these people can only understand a very simplistic carrots and sticks approach.
Jagienka:
It's probably the same for any immigrant around the world. Some countries offer more benefits and some less, but extension of PIA is the same for everybody, because we all live away from our homes.
If immigrants to China are willing to invest billions into their economy, then sure.
laowaigentleman:
It would just go to some idiot like Wang Jianlin's bank account so he can give his son money to buy Apple watches for a dog.
Better if they just fully opened the place. There'd be no Chinese run companies anywhere in China because the locals are too lazy, stupid and useless to compete with foreign professionals. China's owned Hong Kong since 1997 and only had to copy its banking system, but they couldn't even manage that because all of the Berties Woosters from "elite" families work for them and spend 90% of their day pretending to look busy or making sure no-one spots them looking at pictures of someone else's dinner under the desk when they're supposed to be serving a customer.
Knowing their real working culture, I'm sure no investor worth his salt would ever send money into this place because it will just be wasted keeping a bunch of fools occupied.
I have thought about this many times and i always come back with the same answer. No.
The Chinese government and its people are two different things. So punishing people for how the government treats us visa wise are different. Plus the government couldnt care less if every single chinese person with a visa around the world had it cancelled and had to return home.
Plus we seem to forget that when chinese go pretty much anywhere there are stringent visa interviews and or alot of money being thrown around. Going tit for tat would pretty much mean that none of us would be here.
I do despise seeing otherwise respectable companies and governments around the world tossing Chinas salad but if you think about it. We all kinda just packed up and moved to China and like you said. There is always another offer tomorrow. in any tit for tat situation we would lose out. Why? Because we dont have it as bad as we make it seem.
As for them replacing you. Ill try to put this as respectfully as I can as you are still sore about it but you are right that 95% of admin or bosses would probably be in idiot for letting you go to hire a drunk. But you obviously have not proven you are valuble TO THEM.
Always remember. If 95% of people are stupid then they arent stupid. That is the normal. You either adapt and flourish ( by that i mean dumb it down and take your foot off the throttle a bit and chill out) or you keep getting rejected for inadequacies you cant seem to realize until you find your unicorn.( A boss that cares about the quality of education).
laowaigentleman:
That one's a fair call and I don't take it badly at all.
I don't think 90% of people are stupid, but I won't hold off on saying that 90% of school administrators here in China are stupid.
Most of them only have their jobs because they're old. There is a disconnect between them and their customers, just as there's a disconnect between the government and the people of this country.
I'm not overly sore about not being wanted because I don't want to work for them either and I know most other jobs will be just as shit as this one if not slightly better, what bothers me is the fact that if they didn't want me, they should have told me a month or so ago. Now I have to rush to get a visa, and arrange a new apartment, meaning I'll have to spend money I was hoping to take home.
The way they make a decision regarding retaining or hiring a new foreign teacher with inside of a month to go before the semester ends reinforces my point about their incompetence. I think the teaching industry will get better, but it's only because the people making these decisions (thankfully) have to retire at the age of 55. The generation gap in China is massive, but I also posit that the economic transition of intangibles like access to information has resulted in the customer base of these schools to become far more savvy to the machinations of their over-simplistic approaches to the norms of providing services here and the people in the position of providing the services are simply mal-adaptive. Just like the dynamic between the people and this country's government which you described.
But then again, perhaps I've got my own shortcomings which I haven't analyzed as deeply as theirs. It's certainly a flaw of mine, so whenever you contribute to my comments or questions, I find myself going away and reflecting on myself too.
So thanks for saying it. It's certainly sound advice 90% of the time.
Perhaps you're right. My intention is to punish the government for their policies, not the people here, so if it doesn't punish the government then it's just a petty action fit only for the government of China instead of a civilized, modern democracy in the 21st century.
I'm not completely convinced it wouldn't punish the government as they all want their kids to settle in western countries as well as park their dark money, but this issue's debatable and depends on the outcome of how badly it hurts the government. Surely they can't live their lives without hope of emigrating? Why steal all that money just to shop at Wanda and buy apple watches for a dog?
Excuse the length.
Definitely not. I know, because if Chinese in my home country were treated nearly like the way we are treated here (as suspicious "foreigners", with the government referring to them by racial slurs, as being genetically unable to ever be part of the culture because "foreign bodies are different from our bodies", started at, as objects of curiosity, etc.), there would be protests in the streets decrying racism and xenophobia until there were changes.
laowaigentleman:
I'm referring to government migration policies rather than bigotry from members of society at large.
I'd never condone that kind of thing.
Mateusz:
They are linked, though. The Chinese government's policies against immigration, or even long-term residency, reflects feelings of xenophobia, a view that people from other countries can never fully integrate into Chinese culture, and are to be treated as eternal outsiders.
It also contributes. China is largely homogenous, and this is due to prohibitive policies. This way, Chinese can keep linking race/ethnicity, and nationality. Britain is much more accepting of immigration, regardless of race. Consequently, British don't consider "Britishness" to be a matter of genetics. Anyone of any race can be British, and should be accepted equally (should be, though racism still exists). With the vast majority of Chinese being one race, and Chinese racial minorities pushed to the margins, Chinese are more likely to make claims that someone is Chinese or not based on genetics.
95% or so of the Chinese population can probably fit into the "black hair, brown eyes, yellow skin" description, with visible minorities mostly segregated (ethnic Russians in the north, or Uyghurs in the west). If there were suddenly a few million black, white, and brown people who are now Chinese, and want to integrate into Chinese society, it'd be harder to hold onto the "Chinese people are all yellow. White people are foreign" mindset. At least, it'd open up a lot of questions about what it means to be Chinese.
You can look at how immigration changes has caused Japan to start asking questions about what it means to be Japanese (Ariana Miyamoto, for example, or Tsurunen Marutei).
"I don't know why they think they can treat us so poorly when our countries treat them so well." The reason you don't know why they are like that is because you're not an abuser.
Abusers need victims to abuse, like fire needs wood to sustain itself. They can't stop looking for more victims. Turning one's other check to abusers only makes one a fool, a laughable, pathetic doormat to them.
For the majority, forcing them take their own medicine is the only way to change them. If that still doesn't work, then isolation (locked up in 'jail') or annihilation are the only two solutions left; for the safety of all those who aren't abusers.
Do you believe China would become more open and friendly if our countries start treating Chinese this same way? It's definitely unfair, but - what isn't? If I want to live in China, I must accept the way they want to deal with foreign guests in their own country. This kind of conduct is part of their culture... The only chance for Chinese to change (just a little bit and after 10000 years) their thinking, in my opinion, is welcome them in our countries and let them see the difference. The choice is theirs.
laowaigentleman:
But here's the problem. I don't see Chinese migrants as guests in my country. Why? Because I'm not a fuckwit. Simple as that.
If I'm a guest here, they're the crassest and shittiest hosts imaginable after the North Koreans.
Jagienka:
I'm not saying that they are not like that. I only say that they have the right to be so. If they are so terrible as hosts, then what are we still doing here? Being masochists? There is always a price to pay for what we want to get. In China this price is high, I admit.
companies will search for replavements in anticipation of a contract renewal. you jumped to the conclusion that they'd replace you, but perhaps it was just asafeguard measure. my old employer always put up job ads whenever we had a disagreement, but wpuldn't dream of firing me if i wasn't leaving the company.
Why? because i'm a professional educator? because i'm experienced, reliable and a team worker?
nah. it was because the kids liked me, and might stop paying tuition if i left.
laowaigentleman:
I think we're in the same boat. My problem is that if they're only beginning deliberations on the issue now when my visa's up for renewal in early July then I don't have enough time to wait for them to make up their minds so I've got to move on just in case they find someone else.
Inept management has resulted in a teacher departing, and at the risk of tooting my own horn, they will lose students, but there are plenty more cashed up peasants out there desperate for their kid to be brainwashed in a class of thirty rather than sixty.
