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Posts: 796

Shifu

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Q: How much per month at least do you think is needed to lead a decent life in big cities of China?

12 years 22 weeks ago in  General  - China

 
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Posts: 856

Shifu

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It depends how you define "decent". If that involves going on weekend trips or even the odd holiday to South East Asia, having expat health insurance, buying fashionable clothes regularly, eating out in good restaurants frequently etc. then anywhere from 12-20,000 kuai (closer to 20,000) if you live in a first tier city. Haven't lived in a second or third tier one so you might need less there.

yian:

That's quite an eye-opener. I find it difficult to spend more than 4,000-5,000 per month where I am (definitely not tier 1!), quite a bit less than half my wages. Then, I like to cook and only buy things like clothes when I absolutely need them.

12 years 22 weeks ago
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chenhan:

Thanks for your comment,the decent life i mean is not luxirious,it is more appropriate to be called as a moderate life from a universal level.

12 years 22 weeks ago
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coffaholic:

Another thing I forgot to add is that to me, a decent life also entails saving a bit of money just to have a safety net and to cover an emergency or unforeseen expenses. That's why it's very tough to live a very decent life in Beijing if you're not on a high salary, because most of your monthly salary is pretty much deplete at the end of each month unless you don't go out much, don't shop much and mostly eat at home.

12 years 22 weeks ago
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MrTibbles:

Even then it doesn't matter anymore. For example in Shanghai, expenses have gone up AGAIN for I believe the 30th month in a row. What I used to go out and buy in the supermarket for 50rmb now costs 100rmb for exactly the same things as 2 years ago. My expenses have increased, my wages have not increased to match. Even McDonald's has raised prices AGAIN here. Going to be 8rmb for a hamburger - more than the price of one on the dollar menu in the US!

12 years 22 weeks ago
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12 years 22 weeks ago
 
Posts: 1876

Emperor

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One thing to think about concerning 2nd tier, 3rd tier and the boondocks: the only factor in the cost of living that is cheaper is rent. Food and other items are the same price, if not higher, than in major cities. Factor in the travelling expense to get anywhere else, the frustration and helplessness of not being able to get what you want, when you want it, etc. I would say 14K/mo with apartment and taxes included as a minimum for a 1st tier city, 12K/mo (same conditions) for a 2nd tier city and no less than 8K/mo (same conditions) for anywhere else. 

It doesn't matter in the least what locals make, it doesn't matter what a bowl of noodles in the cafeteria costs...it's about converting your salary into your home currency and weighing the cost/benefits in ALL aspects whether or not you can accept that. 

Shining_brow:

Your last comment is true, but only if you're needing that cash in another part of the world soonish, or intending to save for it later. If you came to China with (say) $1000, and you want to leave with $1000, then it doesn't matter one little bit what your salary and spending is like once you've achieved it.

12 years 22 weeks ago
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12 years 22 weeks ago
 
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Emperor

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In Hangzhou it was tough for me to spend less than 75 yuan a day on food, and rent was 3000, though I had a nice place right downtown, really more than I needed. So let's round up for a bit of luxury and bills and say I spend 6k a month, and saved the rest.

In a smaller city, it is more like 1/3 of that or less for an identical lifestyle, although the salary difference isn't huge for me.

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12 years 22 weeks ago
 
Posts: 172

Governor

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Sorry, the question is too vague. What counts as a decent life?
Living in campus housing provided by the job?
Spliting rent with roomates on a nice apartment?
Owning a home?
Being married?
Raising kids?

I've been through all these stages while drawing relatively low Chinese wages but still felt I was living "a decent life" at the time. Now I could think differently.

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12 years 22 weeks ago
 
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I can only speak about my experience of living in a cheaper city, but even with that, as markferrer said, there's so many variables. I could pretty easily live on about 2500 per month if I kept things simple, maybe 5,000-6,000 if I wanted to be more of a social butterfly and hit up the department stores reasonably often.

If you're willing to eat Chinese food all the time, don't drink and don't need to go out that often, don't crave imported products and have an apartment provided by the school, then you could live off practically nothing.

That wouldn't suit me, but then, I'm happy living off Chinese food and cooking often, with the odd major splurge. For some people, my lifestyle would be considered below decent. Compared to the Chinese I work with, I'm a shocking spendthrift.

MissA:

I'd like to expand on this a little. Reading back over this... these figures I've given only really address the most basic, monthly costs. I wouldn't think of accepting a job that would only just cover the minimum monthly food/drink/clothes expenses. I'd always want to be saving at least 2,000-3,000 per month with a little extra put away on top of that for day-trips and would want to have some money in the bank for a rainy day/lack of payday.

12 years 22 weeks ago
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12 years 22 weeks ago
 
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I've done both - first tier (now) and third tier (2 years).

In the third tier, I was given an apartment on campus, which was only slightly smaller than my current unit - it only had 1 bedroom, now I have 3 Smile

In the 3rd T, I was paid 5K/month...and really, I was able to save about 3K month, going to the local restaurants about 3-4 times per week (sometimes more)... and those meals might cost me about 30RMB each (plus or minus 20, depending on who's with me). Street food was between 1-8RMB. Expensive restaurants could add up to 200-300RMB - but that was FANCY!!!! (and with a friend...) I had a birthday, and had over a dozen people come alone - cost less than 500RMB, and everyone was full (and a little drunk Tongue), and that was at one of the best restaurants in town...

But, during the holidays, everything was shut down, and a lot less availability of foods (I was in the university sector of town). I either had to taobao, or go to the capital city (1 hour away on D train) to get my specialty stuff - like cheese!

I'm not a big drinker, so I could save that cash, but my colleagues were at the local bar (some had been there for a few years, so had that one and only bar somewhat more westernised!), and they could spend up a couple of hundred a night in there... regularly! And, since it was a 3rd tier, I think we teachers comprised about 80% of non-student foreigners (there was a large contingent of foreigners going to the universities).

Now, I'm in Hangzhou. Pay is 12K plus 2K housing (of which, basically all goes on my aparment... so it evens out). But, I live out in the sticks in the university sector... so my taxi costs me 50RMB, instead of just 20 if I lived closer (but then... if I lived closer, I'd pay a hell of a lot more for my apartment!) I can easily do 200/night at my local expat hangout. A fancy dinner for 2 can easily cost 200-300 - and I'm still hungry after it. Costs of stuff like clothes can easily be a lot more expensive, but then, it caters to those who have the cash to afford it! You can just as easily go down some alley and get the cheap stuff. The cost of public transport is higher - but only by a few kuai, so it's not really that important, unless you're a real tight-A. Basic foods at non-special restaurants are a bit more as well, again, at the lower end of the market, not an issue.

But, as others have asked, what's your definition of 'decent'?? You get much more decent in a higher tier city - and that will cost you a lot more! My decent life in Hanghzou will cost a lot less than my decent life in Shanghai

Transport here is a bit of a PITA, so while you may live in the burbs of Shanghai, you can usually grab the metro to somewhere else... HZ doesn't have that yet (and, when it does open - maybe this year - it still won't be too useful to most people).

I'm not much of a socialite, so I can still save a few K here (if it wasn't for credit card debts back home Tongue)

In HZ, I can easily get my 12K pay.. and a lot more from tutoring. In that 3rd T city, not a chance!!! In a city like that, youd be on good money at 6K, and the money you get from privates would be woeful :( (all the richer kids would go to the better universities, in richer citites!)

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12 years 22 weeks ago
 
Posts: 461

Shifu

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Even in big cities, you have to take into account some of the following factors to have a general idea of the possible costs.
Let's consider a situation with a basic salary of 20K/month with no other allowances (apartment, car, insurance, etc) included and a family status corresponding to married (wife or husband doesn't work) and with one child (2 years-old):
1) rental fees: min. 4.5-6K/month (naturally the fees will be increased on a yearly basis by your landlord)
2) health insurance: min. 15K/year (for the baby), 25K/year (adult)
3) transportation: min. 800/month
4) taxes, social benefits : min. 3K/month (removed directly from the salary)
5) food : min 100/day (don't forget I also include baby's food and powder milk)
6) electricity, phone, gas, water: min. 700/month
7) activities : min 60/day

On the items mentioned above, you can argue a lot about the costs. And you'll be right, because the data I provide, it's only based on my situation and each situation are different. Some may spend more, some less. I would say I'm in the average of a foreign family.

What I can however say by meeting with other foreign mothers with children around my child's age is that I cannot give even half of what they can provide to their children in terms of food and activities. In terms of surroundings, my compound looks like a shit-hole in comparison to those who can afford better compound.
The best for you is to simply take a job and try to live here for one year. Then you can evaluate your situation according to your notion of "decency" and decide what salary would be opportune for you to get. 

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12 years 22 weeks ago
 
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Emperor

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Depends on who you are. Single guy under 30? 16,000 should do fine. 

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12 years 22 weeks ago
 
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