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Q: What are some of your rules that you follow when dealing with Chinese?
Some of you that have had enough dealings within China can pretty much start to sense the patterns most Chinese people do. I have my own rules and my first and foremost rule in China is...
1) Don't trust the Chinese people (meaning Mainlanders)
I don't have this rule to be mean or say that all Chinese are cheaters or liars (however a lot are). But you will find that many Chinese just don't know what they are doing or talking about. So they will tell you things like... "no problem" "nope we don't have it"... "don't worry, it's okay" or be really good on presentation but when it comes time to deliver...
Just an example, I mentioned before me and my wife recently bought an apartment here. And while I knew the complex would be good, the design showed two man made rivers in the second and third row of buildings. I was extremely clear that our apartment ABSOLUTELY had to have a view of the water... if it didn't... I would freak out and I knew I would.
At the time, the buildings weren't completed yet and they kept telling me they would follow the design shown on paper and with those little housing models. I told them they better. After some time (about a year later), we discovered they were moving a bit slow and I simply didn't trust them. So I said we should move to the second row because I saw that that lake had already been built (even though it meant paying a little more). Also, it would mean a view of the lake in-front and behind us but guess what?
They screwed the entire third row out of the promised man-made river. Instead they threw in some parks and plazas and on top of that another developer is putting up buildings RIGHT behind the third row... nice view of concrete for them.
The complex is awesome but the people in the third row got severely screwed over just like I feared they would be... I can't tell you enough how rule #1 has always saved me ass in China.
How about you guys? What rule do you live by when dealing with Chinese people?
When you think a chinese person will swerve left, they will always swerve right.
If a chinese has the right turning signal on NEVER think its clear on the left. It isnt.
But its not just for driving.
If a Chinese person says it will cost 200. Prepare 400.
If a Chinese person says it will be finished on Tuesday, expect it on Thursday. Sorry he had a meeting on Tuesday.
If a Chinese person says it can not be done, you know your on the right track!
The hottest girl has the hairiest armpits.
The guy wearing the nicest suit is always the most broke.
Robk:
Haha...
I always found that if you see a group of Chinese guys, the one wearing the Hermes belt is most likely the biggest douche.
When you think a chinese person will swerve left, they will always swerve right.
If a chinese has the right turning signal on NEVER think its clear on the left. It isnt.
But its not just for driving.
If a Chinese person says it will cost 200. Prepare 400.
If a Chinese person says it will be finished on Tuesday, expect it on Thursday. Sorry he had a meeting on Tuesday.
If a Chinese person says it can not be done, you know your on the right track!
The hottest girl has the hairiest armpits.
The guy wearing the nicest suit is always the most broke.
Robk:
Haha...
I always found that if you see a group of Chinese guys, the one wearing the Hermes belt is most likely the biggest douche.
The exact opposite for me. I start on the presumption to trust everyone, no matter what culture, what colour, what religion etc.
To treat one person differently from another, at the first meeting, based on their ethnicity is wrong. Think about it. Really think about what you are saying.
If your question had been " What are your rules when dealing with estate agents?", that's different. Even estate agents don't trust estate agents 
.
Or "What are your rules when dealing with used car salesmen?"
jetfire9000:
Ethnicity implies a direct linkage to a certain cultural group. It should not be confused with race, which is purely and only genealogical, nor should it be confused with nationality, which is the political classifier. I think it's perfectly fine to base personal conditions on weeding out certain cultures, because not all are compatible with each other (unlike races or nationalities, in which usually don't influence personal dealings as much) for a guy in china it's hard to do, but it seems to work for him.
ScotsAlan:
Yes jeftfire. But in China, nationality, ethnicity and culture are all one.
If I was on a British Q&A board for example, and I asked " What are your rules for dealing with French?", I would be shot down in flames. If I asked "What are your rules for dealing with Jews?", I might well find myself in a Police station.
But, if I asked " Why do estate agents always cheat me?", I would probabl get a lot of cheat stories.
Now, I am not having a go at RobK for his question, I am just asking him to think about his question, and put it into a home place context.
I think the real issue, is that because we are subjected to racism every day, it becomes normal for us. So we, unknowingly, do as the Romans do. We differentiate based on race. Not with black, brown, orange, or purple people, but with Chinese. Because Chinese see us as different so we all end up seeing them as different. After all, it's the Chinese who make a point of saying how different we are... several times a day.
andy74rc:
Oh c'mon Alan, just leave the politically correct way for once, would you? Don't you see how many damages it did already?
ScotsAlan:
Put it this way Andy, I have been shafted more by westerners than Chinese.
It's not the culture or where people are from that causes people to be shafters, it's the professions. A Chinese estate agent is no different from an American realtor.
An American realtor once tried to cheat me in New York. I walked away. I did not ask if all people from New York were cheats.
Nothing to do with being PC
Lord_hanson:
I believe it is based on experience not ethnicity. As for a British Q&A, I think there would be a few interesting comments concerning the French.
gouxiong:
Dear ScotsAlan, I honestly admire your way of addressing the issues and controversies. I try to learn from you. I have one very good friend, Singaporean by the way, who posess similar skills. He turned 60 not a long time ago. May be with age I will also learn ...:)
Robk:
You don't get it. This is NOT one instance sample it is based on the 10 000 experiences I have encountered before I created this rule out of necessity. It's NOT just real estate agents or one particular industry...
I have thought about what I am saying. And unfortunately, I wouldn't use this outlook if it didn't work. It has worked MANY times and prevented or out me out of bad situations MANY times AFTER I started to apply this outlook more than previously.
I am automatically suspicious and untrusting of Chinese... sorry to be more precise MAINLANDERS (I thought that was implied), until I feel I have enough comfort or evidence to do so... that's just me.
It's obvious it doesn't sound peachy or nice... or politically correct but we aren't in Kansas anymore.
Robk:
"Yes jeftfire. But in China, nationality, ethnicity and culture are all one."
What? This isn't true at all.
Englteachted:
Yes most New Yorkers are cheats, is that based on race, culture or just experience of dealing with people from New York? For an intelligent person to not make that logical conclusion is foolish.
And Scots, are you telling me that you get into taxis trusting the taxi driver? That makes you seriously naive.
ScotsAlan:
Fair enough robk. I was not meaning to have a go at you. Just be be aware of what you are saying and about who. You can see from the above the engteach is not happy because of what I said I could say about new yorkers. If people feel slighted or insulted, they dont actually read the whole statement or the context, the insult stands out in BOLD, every other word fades into the background :)
To follow Mike:
-The better the car they drive, the sh*ttier the apartment they live in, and probably the more broke or indebted they are. A local friend of mine said that most Chinese nowadays are car and apartment slaves.
-The prettier the girl, the worse her breath.
-Never ask for planning, there is none in China.
-If in Guangdong let your girlfriend/wife handle the racist scumbags with some Cantonese cursing, it's more effective than you throwing punches around and you don't risk ending up at the police station.
-At the restaurant, if you can find 3 bowls of meiyou on their menu it means you should walk away to never come back in this joke of a place.
-Never answer to "helloowwwwww!!!!" in any way, that's what they expect, ignore them instead, plus you don't catcall people like zoo animals, and I don't talk with barbarians.
Even using words of one syllable in logical, easy to understand sentences does not guarantee understanding when communicating with colleagues who claim to be fluent English speakers.
Never, ever, have more than one point or question in your messages or emails because they will only deal with one point and forget the rest.
If you are told 999 times that there'll be "no problem" on the day what was supposed to be "no problem" will turn out to be a huge problem.
You will need 200 pictures and 200 photocopies of every document.
Robk:
I agree... this happens to me a lot. I have to repeat myself constantly because of this...
And another thing is you have to wait for them to answer each question before applying a new question or point in a totally separate note or email.
Their brains have an extremely hard time focusing and thinking about more than one topic. I have seen this proven with multiple Chinese people.
I make it a rule to keep all requests and communication as absolutely short and direct as possible. Don't make any small talk, zero extraneous details, don't engage on anything beyond the simplest requirement I need until it is done.
I learned my first year to speak slowly and in simple English to Chinese, because they will never say they don't understand something.
While in public my rule is to speak an Alien instant invented language if someone comes up to me and says:" Hi I can speak English, where are you from?" My reply: Uga buga no EniiinnggLishhhh
ironman510:
haha I love the Russian accent, so I try to say: I do not speak thee Englishhhh, and I use this to force them to allow myself to practice my chinese.. It takes me a few times to pronounce it correctly with new phrases or words.
Even Chinese encounter the same issue when dealing with Chinese. It's not just foreigners. That's only the way the society is.
Robk:
That's true. And that's why I don't consider my rule racial or permanent.
If someone presents themselves outside of the patterns that I have experienced, then of course I will start to trust them more and more.
Mainland society (I wouldn't say Chinese in general) is just everybody looking to please friends/family and rip off strangers.... So when I first meet someone, I don't trust them because they are a stranger.
I don't do business with people unless I have an ironclad strategy for forcing them to pay me. I never pay people in advance, and I never accept post facto payment.
Expect nothing other than lies and incompetence and if something better than that is the result be both surprised and delighted.
Robk:
That is true. I am so happy when I don't have a headache and something is done properly without too much effort (or at least the same effort it would take back home).
That shows how disorganized things are here... but hey... at least it significantly lowers your expectations and when you travel out of China it is a very nice vacation.
I avoid dealing with Chinese people except when I have to. If they try to talk to me I just say "ting bu dong", then I can blissfully return to silence. I hate the laundry list of questions they feel the need to hit me with.
gouxiong:
Not bad. So you came to China to avoid dealing with Chinese? Smart move! Now I already know what is the wierdest thing I heard as somebody asked this question earlier :)
timjames:
I didn't come to China to ignore the Chinese. It's just after being here for a little while they really started to annoy me with their staring,smacking their food,slurping every fluid, the list goes on.
Today my wife wanted me to get a fish from the shopping mall, so I went there in my lunch hour. I knew it might be an issue because the fishmonger always leaves for lunch, and the stand is often unmanned when I arrive. Today, to my surprise, he was still there. My wife wanted the fish gutted and cleaned, and cut to make ready for cooking.
At first, I offered my phone to the guy, so she could say what she wanted. He smiled, spoke loudly, and pretended not to understand the clearest gestures. I switched on the speakerphone so my wife could say what she wanted. Whenever she spoke, he also spoke loudly, so as to block out her voice. She send me a text message in Chinese to show him, but by then he had buggered off t eat lunch.
I was handed a gutted live fish. shaking about in agony, which I had to batter at home to kill it.
Additional rule for Chinese: Mealtimes are sacrisanct. Don't expect anything to get done over lunch or dinnertime. Chinese will be willing mindless slaves during working hours and even overtime, but don't fuck with their eating breaks.
gouxiong:
There are good people and there are not so good ones. Your fish seller was apparently not the kindest one.
But I do not find that weird that you came into communication problem when you want a person to perform certain task but you do not know how to say it ...
It is certainly unpleasant experience but I do not think it's weird ...
Robk:
@gouxiong - I don't think this has much to do with communication to be honest.
I have seen many Chinese pull this act when they don't feel like dealing with something close to their lunch or time to get off work. They just pull a... "I don't really want to help you... so can you please hurry up and buy something because your presence is an inconvenience to me, especially right now."
It sounds like the guy didn't even want to help or communicate. He just wanted to toss a fish and take one of those 12:00 - 2:00pm naps, cause he works so hard.
coineineagh:
yes, i've been living in China over 3 years, but i can't tell the difference between a person who doesn't understand me, and one who understands fine, but wants to play stupid so he can leave early for lunch. his co-workers were also telling him in Chinese to pick up the phone, by the way. but by all means, go ahead and make excuses for boorish Chinese behaviour so you can blame the foreigner. you already knew who was wrong before you finished reading, didn't you gouxiong?
gouxiong:
I did not say you were wrong. I also agree with you that it was the fish seller who acted as a jerk and probably just used the advantage of the fact that you were probably not able to explain him properly what you wanted. I just said that this thread is supposed to be about the weirdest things and your experience does not sound that weird to me. A foreigner who needs third party to explain the topic shall clearly expect that all the things may not go smoothly due to different reasons. And if not so such a person would show a high degree of naivete ... But it still does not mean you were wrong. Apparently your trouble is that you are a bit (well a lot a lot ) biased, isn't it? :)
Strange how a lot of answers and comments were deleted from this post.
Shame on you admin, shame on you. Unless it was a glitch, which seems to happen a lot on this site... or just a convenient excuse...
