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Q: What Does China's Economic Slowdown Mean For Foreign English Teacher Demand?
It's no secret that China's economy is slowing down. Feb 2016 exports are 25% lower than the same month last year.
There are many stats like this cropping up.
What does everyone think about how this will effect the demand for English Teachers in China?
Is it still worth jumping on a plane and taking an ESL job?
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
8 years 13 weeks ago in Business & Jobs - China
I was talking to my mate tonight. He is just back from shanghai. He says the place is swarming with engineers. ESL is not the only profession in China.
Yup, the economy is slowing, its growth is slowing, but it is still growing. Wages are rising, living standards are going up, consumer spending is flat. But on the whole it looks good.
Apart from the housing bubble. The housing bubble is an issue.
TheShadowBroker:
Good to hear. The housing bubble in China won't last forever.
dom87:
salaries in shanghai are not raising in balance to the costs.
many companies haven't raised salary in 2-3 years
ScotsAlan:
Wages are going up in the PRD dom87. We averaged 7.5% at our place this CNY. Minimum wage in Guangdong is rising higher than that year on year. Manufacturers are demanding higher standards from their suppliers as a result. And most suppliers are delivering. The skill level is going up massively. China have played this very well. While they advertised low cost labour they were putting millions through university to learn the skills needed to develop innovation. I see little evidence that this has failed. Higher skill gets paid more. The new girls in the factory are now being managed by people who migrated 20 years ago. The learning curve for the farm workers moving into the factories can be measured in months now rather than years. This is a very socially mobile environment.
Shining_brow:
Scots - it depends which field you're in as to whether wages are rising or not. University lecturer wages have been pretty stagnant for years! (even dropping, when you look at other benefits - return flight tickets barely cover 1-way now!)
I was talking to my mate tonight. He is just back from shanghai. He says the place is swarming with engineers. ESL is not the only profession in China.
Yup, the economy is slowing, its growth is slowing, but it is still growing. Wages are rising, living standards are going up, consumer spending is flat. But on the whole it looks good.
Apart from the housing bubble. The housing bubble is an issue.
TheShadowBroker:
Good to hear. The housing bubble in China won't last forever.
dom87:
salaries in shanghai are not raising in balance to the costs.
many companies haven't raised salary in 2-3 years
ScotsAlan:
Wages are going up in the PRD dom87. We averaged 7.5% at our place this CNY. Minimum wage in Guangdong is rising higher than that year on year. Manufacturers are demanding higher standards from their suppliers as a result. And most suppliers are delivering. The skill level is going up massively. China have played this very well. While they advertised low cost labour they were putting millions through university to learn the skills needed to develop innovation. I see little evidence that this has failed. Higher skill gets paid more. The new girls in the factory are now being managed by people who migrated 20 years ago. The learning curve for the farm workers moving into the factories can be measured in months now rather than years. This is a very socially mobile environment.
Shining_brow:
Scots - it depends which field you're in as to whether wages are rising or not. University lecturer wages have been pretty stagnant for years! (even dropping, when you look at other benefits - return flight tickets barely cover 1-way now!)
The real problem is not China. The real problem are the bankers.
TheShadowBroker:
You're correct but until the fiat currency ponzi scheme collapses we are stuck playing by their rules. Although since central banks are going into negative interest rates I doubt very much that this can go on much longer.
I think there is still going to be a market for English teachers, but the market might have changed.
I don't have links and my internet if fucked so I can't find them, but from what I understand through reading and some personal experience, people who can are jumping ship and looking for ways to relocate to Western countries, or at least have their kids study abroad so they can gain permanent residency and I suppose the family can maybe piggy back in on that if they need to.
This means parents with money are throwing it into their kids education hoping to get their kid into a western school.
I think that's the new market. If you can work in that market you might be on an earner.
TheShadowBroker:
Ahhh very insightful. The money is shifting to people wanting to get out so they are even more motivated to learn practical english. Translates into more money. :)
Thanks
I can't really tell about the demand, 'cause I am Non-naive English teacher.
However, I didn't have many problems to get two new offers/positions looking for it only last 10 days, both through the placement agents.
I also like to stay out of Tier 1 and go anywhere in China, except in cold.
You'll know, if it's worth to jump on the plane whatever you'll see they're offering/replying. Hit the 'Jobs' tag with your CV.
IVe ben hearing the opposite compared to others. Im in Wuhan, and word on the street among some foreigners is that there have been some new law changes. I assumed it was at the national level, but maybe not. The new law changes that have taken place here include something to the effect that ESL businesses (aka language schools) will no longer be able to hire non-native speakers UNLESS their degree came from a native speaking country. (e.g. A Kenyan national with a degree from a New Zealand University).
I personally know of a Russian woman here who is worried about her job. Rumor also has it that the reason the Chinese are doing this is to allow those slots to be filled with Chinese (usually of the younger generations) that know enough English to handle the job. I wonder if the parents of these schools will approve of such changes.
TheShadowBroker:
Yeah China still seems to have a bias towards foreign english teachers even if a qualified Chinese person can do the job. That should translate well into some sort of job security for ESL's.
Thanks
It should not have any affect on demand from the Economic Slowdown. Your talking about apples and oranges.
The demand (especially today, with English being so much a part of ones globalization) is so great it has nothing to do with the slowdown. Unless you are specifically targeting the Economy as a variable. Who are you "TheShawdowBroke"?
If you are an economic adviser to the English Teacher segment of the market then I think you are choosing the wrong variable for comparison to increase or decrease your participation.
Now your next question is one I would like to have an answer to. Is it worth it to take on an ESL job today? That depends on your definition of "worth it". Because it still seems like there are a lot of issues to contend with besides salary and location. Most UK or Americans are increasingly frustrated with the hassles of just not having the basic necessities: good food, water, clean air, shelter, weather to deal with, transportation, no legal issues.
Is It Worth it? You people tell me!
TheShadowBroker:
HAHA I just noticed echina cut off the R to spell "TheShadowBroke"
No I am not an advisor. I am just considering the long term viability of having a decent job in China over the next few years.
My reasoning is less manufacturing means more unemployed people and those people have less money to spend.
I am Canadian and a native speaker but I am not white so I imagine I won't be at the top of their list.
I won't know if it's worth it until I get there I suppose but you gave me something to think about.
Thanks
icnif77:
If you'll follow my advice above and start sending your CV to the job offers, don't forget to include your photo in CV.
Chinese schools/requiters won't reply, if they can't place you into the school for some reason (Non-native, Non-caucasian, overweight and similar).
Never mind! Don't stop sending your CV till you won't get reply/an interview invitation.
It is personal experience and best feeling about your 'suitability in China', you'll get by applying to the job adverts. It doesn't matter, if you aren't ready to move to China asap.
Good luck!
ScotsAlan:
@ shadow. Manufacturing is slowing. Not shrinking. It's actually still growing at a healthy rate. The issue is that costs are being driven down by the demand for profit from the western banks. And also, western media, it needs to produce the spin that china is on the verge of collapse. It's not. Til the housing bubble pops that is. The world is changing. That's all. Where I live there are lots of closed shops. Doom and gloom most will think. But no. Go 5 miles up the road and there are massive mail order warehouses. People are closing their shops to go work there for more money. They want to earn more to pay for a better education for their kids.
It totally depends on your qualifications! If you're FOB with nothing but a degree and weekend/online TESOL - then it's going to suck.
If you've got yourself a degree in English Lit - or better yet, some other subject degree, especially at Master's or PhD level, then yes, it can be good! (but then, if you've got a PhD, then you should be asking - why China, and not in other countries??) If you've got a teaching degree in physics, econ, maths, chemistry, etc, then you can make a nice bundle (though I don't know much about Canadian teacher's packages, so can't compare).
More and more 'international' schools are popping up, and more and more A-levels type schools, who need teachers who can teach those subjects.
Alternatively, if you've got a primary school teaching qualification. you're set for life here! However, you can expect to get ripped off by the owners - as everyone here thinks it's easy to open such a school for little kids, and keep 90% of the profits, and pay peanuts to the teachers (comparatively - charge 100-200RMB per child - 20 children... only pay 100RMB to the teacher total). Of course, that's in wealthier cities. You can do that in poorer ciites, but you need to find the right place.
Even with the latest visa changes, employment standards in China are too lax. I hope that schools will become more selective and hire only those with degrees related to Teaching English as a Second Language. And if their needs can't be met with TESL/TESOL majors, perhaps they could consider applicants holding degrees in Linguistics, Literacy, or ELA. Ideally, if an applicant isn't qualified to teach ESL in his or her home country, then the same should be true of teaching in China.
icnif77:
Did you think about 'demand&supply'? In China.
If I remember correct, there will be 300 million English language students in China by 2020.
If you do the math about how many Native English teachers are required to satisfy this demand, your post is only educational theory- wishful thinking.
RandomGuy:
I also hope that schools will also respect the contracts that they agreed upon, provide professional curriculums and teaching plans, which is not the case in most schools right now.
Shining_brow:
There are about 160.000 schools in my province alone. There is not the supply to put even 1 teacher in each school now (34 provinces). And, obviously, some want more than just 1.
While I, and no doubt many others, agree with you - demand FAR outstrips supply! Especially when you build in the "Only from 5 nations" requirement (yeah, I know about the change). Did you know that Ireland and South Africa are not included in those 5??
The more difficult the requirements, the less the supply.
Ok - it's not a bad thing in one respect, but is really stupid in the other!
icnif77:
I worked with DOS from S. Africa at EF Tangshan in 2009 with F (or L) visa, which never got turned to Z, because I am Non. Then, EF would never hire Non.
DOS was great guy with proper English pronunciation, who helped me a lot. One could never tell today or then, that he isn't Native English speaker.
In China, things differ.
Just like in 2008/9 workers have a low or no work, so they will wisely need to skill up their abilities so English teachers will still be in demand. However, the bigger challenge is coming from the study abroads returning to find work and with companies assuming they are suitable teachers that can compete with foreigners on English. haha 
